The record · Transcript
Council Session — 2026-01-13
Transcript from the session's official auto-captions (23,698 words), shown in readable case and split into speaker turns. Speakers are not yet identified (colors just separate consecutive turns). Auto-captions can contain errors — check the recording for anything that matters.
Session summaryEditor-reviewed
The Portland City Council Community and Public Safety Committee met on January 13, 2026. Roll call confirmed committee members present, and the committee adopted a statement of conduct before proceeding. A motion to suspend the rules to add a resolution regarding ICE activities to the end of the agenda was made and seconded; a vote occurred, with outcomes recorded in the vote ledger. Minutes from prior meetings were approved by unanimous consent. The bulk of the session was devoted to discussion of a draft ordinance addressing law enforcement identification, masking prohibitions, badge visibility, and identity verification requirements for individuals conducting law enforcement activities. A slide presentation outlined the ordinance's rationale, components (masking, identification, verification, documentation), and context regarding federal immigration enforcement activity. Representatives from the Public Safety Service Area, including the Portland Police Bureau, offered legal, operational, and labor-related considerations regarding the draft, including concerns about federal supremacy, bargaining obligations, and implementation costs; figures regarding costs and timelines were provided. Clarifying questions from committee members followed. Public testimony was taken from numerous community members, expressing a range of views on the ordinance, federal immigration enforcement, and related concerns. The committee held closing discussion before adjourning, with the next meeting scheduled for January 27, 2026.
AI-drafted from the session's auto-captions, reviewed by an editor — describes the discussion only; recorded votes live in the vote ledger. Captions contain errors.
0 Good afternoon everyone. I call this meeting of the community and public safety committee of the Portland city council. To order. Today is Tuesday, January 13th at 2:30 p.m. Diana, will you please call the roll?
1 Good afternoon. Smith Morillo here. Novick here. Zimmerman canal here.
2 And I see councilor Smith is here as well. Christopher, will you please read the statement of conduct?
3 Welcome to the meeting of the community and public safety committee to testify before this committee in person or virtually. You must sign up in advance on the committee agenda at ww Portland. Agenda. Community and public safety committee, or by calling 311. Information on engaging with the committee can be found at this link. Registration for virtual testimony closes one hour prior to the meeting. In person, testifiers must sign up before the agenda item is heard. For public testimony today, individuals may testify for two minutes unless the chair states otherwise. Your microphone will be muted when your time is over. The chair preserves order disruptive conduct such as shouting, refusing to conclude your testimony when your time is up, or interrupting others testimony or committee deliberations will not be allowed. If you cause a disruption, a warning will be given. Further disruption will result in ejection from the meeting. Anyone who fails to leave once ejected is subject to arrest for trespass. Additionally, the committee may take a short recess and reconvene virtually. Your testimony should address the matter being considered. When testifying, state your name for the record. If you're a lobbyist, identify the organization you represent, and virtual testifiers should unmute themselves when the clerk calls your name. Thank you.
4 Thank you christopher. At this meeting, the community safety committee and public safety committee will first approve minutes for November and then also discuss and hear public comment on a draft of a proposal that's going to come forth soon regarding law enforcement, masking, identification, verification. I also know that there is going to be a request. I wanted to give councilor Smith the opportunity to do that, to add something to the to the end of the agenda.
5 Mr. Chair, I'd like to be able to suspend the rules so that I could introduce a. Resolution at the end of the of the committee hearing.
6 Thank you, councilor Smith. There's a motion to suspend the rules. This requires a 4/5 majority and a second to add a resolution proposed by councilor Smith. It's a Portland city council and mayor wilson's resolution on ice activities. Does this motion have a second? Second, there's a motion. This doesn't require debate. So we'll just take a vote. Diana, will you please call the roll?
7 Smith I.
8 Morillo sorry, what is the resolution?
9 Add this. It's a.
10 It's a motion to suspend the rules, to add an agenda item at the end of the agenda.
11 And the title of it councilor Morillo is to affirm council support for transparency and accountability in law enforcement and urge all law enforcement personnel operating within the city of Portland to fully identify themselves and refrain from wearing masks. And it will also ask that ice in the community that they're stalled. All activity.
12 Okay, so it's just covering what councilor Kanal ban already does. I'm confused.
13 So I just want to be clear. There's there's unfortunately no debate on this motion.
14 Just sure, we can add it to the end of the agenda.
15 I Novick. I let's see canal.
16 I okay, so this motion did pass and it's going to be added to the end of the agenda. I do want to note this is a relatively full agenda. So hopefully there will be time to start conversation. But it's not guaranteed. And I just want to be clear on that. We're going to go into the first item now. Diana, will you please read the first item.
17 Item number one, November 4th to November 18th, 2025. Community and public safety committee minutes.
18 All right. This first item is the approval of the minutes. These minutes are available online as part of the meeting agenda. If there is no objection, the minutes will be approved by unanimous consent. Seeing no objection, the minutes are approved. We'll now move into the next two items which are going to be called together. Diana, will you please read the next two items?
19 Item number two discussion on draft ordinance to add identification of law enforcement officers. Code to prohibit face covering, require badge visibility, and require identity verification for individuals conducting law enforcement activities. Item number three public comment on draft ordinance to add identification of law enforcement officers. Code to prohibit facial coverings. Require badge visibility, and require identity verification for individuals conducting law enforcement activities.
20 Thank you. Diana, we're going to take a minute here and just get our slides posted or sorry, screen shared. I'm joined by jack jaden on my team will be coming up in a minute here and helping run the slides. And I'll let wait till those are visible before I get started here. Also, just as a quick note, you're going to see that councilor, Novick and I are going to hand the gavel back and forth for different parts of this. That's just something we worked out to make sure that that the person moderating the debate is not a party to it, and having obviously an interest in having something that they put forward be viewed favorably. All right. Looks like we are ready to go here. Let's get started. Thanks. So we'll start with the first item, which we're calling the right to know who's policing you on mask identify and verify. Next slide please. First I want to start by centering what this conversation is. Today's a status update on a piece of legislation. There will not be a committee vote today on it. I want to stress that this is a draft. As I've said before, community members and media may be used to seeing in our old form of government from the old council, fully polished documents ready to be voted on before they're ever seen by the public, products not only of research and writing, but of negotiations with fellow councilors. Outside of the public's view, this is not going to be like that. This document is not the end of a backroom deal. It's the start of a front room deal in draft form, ready for councilor Questions and feedback and through today's discussion, welcoming in community feedback publicly. All that together will shape the final draft that is filed for council deliberation and vote. I would love for this to be a document that many parts of our council, many councilors, are a part of shaping, and I want to welcome your input into it as we go through this next slide, please. So today we have about 45 minutes for the presentation part and 45 minutes for testimony. We're going to break it up. Kind of the reason they were read together is that we're going to do the policy introduction with a presentation from the public safety service area, followed by clarifying questions from councilors, followed by your public testimony, which can comment on anything you've heard throughout that process or read. And then we'll come back in and do a committee discussion at the end of it. We've we've emphasized the public feedback because, again, this is not a final vote by the by the council or by the committee. Next slide please. Big picture. You have a right to know. You have a right to know that a person claiming to be law enforcement actually is law enforcement and not an imposter. You have a right to know which agencies are operating in your city exercising law enforcement authority. You have a right to know if you feel wrongdoing has occurred, enough information that you can file a complaint, and you have a right to know that law enforcement operates transparently and accountability in Portland. Next slide please. All right. One more actually. All right. So I want to just start by by framing this. Who are these people that we see out and about in our streets. We see people masked smashing windows snatching people away. We see them using unmarked vehicles with no license plates in my district, and I imagine all three of the others, we see people being snatched out while dropping their kids off at school and spreading terror and fear in our communities. We see this across the entire country. We see heightened threats to life and safety. Just last week, our country was shocked by the killing of renee nicole good in minnesota. She was shot in cold blood by an ice agent who put himself in the way of her car while she filmed him. And her last words to that ice agent were, I'm not mad at you. I want to make sure that I take the opportunity to say her name in this space. Renee. Nicole. Good. This is also no longer a hypothetical risk here in Portland. The very next day, we had two people shot in east Portland by by federal agents. They were outside of hospital, drove away, wounded to find safety from ice. We also know that when there is no verification and no expectation that that a person's claim to be a federal agent is verified, it gives rise to mass criminality. The speaker of the minnesota state house, melissa hortman, was killed by someone impersonating a federal agent last June, along with her husband and another legislator and his wife were shot and wounded as well. Next slide please. We have mass law enforcement officers anonymously terrorizing their own country's community. This is a quote from the la county supervisor who led their masking ordinance at the county level. This is how how authoritarian secret police operate, not legitimate law enforcement. In a democracy. We will not comply in advance. Next slide please. And I want to stress this is not a political left right issue alone. Even donald trump's own fbi agrees. This is a memo from November 7th, which says that the fbi urges ice agents to identify themselves after a rise in criminal law enforcement impersonators. And when we come back with the final version of this, we're going to make sure that you have a lot more evidence and examples. But if you google ice impersonation, you'll find a lot. Next slide please. And again, the purpose of this legislation is to fulfill your right to know. Specifically, it establishes community standards for accountable, transparent law enforcement through this public process. It's designed to prevent kidnapings by imposters, to fight fear and intimidation, to promote accountability and transparency by visually identifying officers and by tracking their actions so that nobody operates with impunity in the city. Next slide please. This is not new to here. I mentioned la county. We also have california that did it at the state level. There's been work done in chicago and other parts of the country as well. Each thing works within that jurisdictions state legal framework. We're going to work on things that operate within our legal framework and hopefully improve on the model that they provided. Next slide. And this is just the other piece of context. Each thing we do is not going to solve the problem alone but together can. And so we're trying to build a defense one brick at a time. You see the first three things that the council has passed. A fourth that came out of committee in December from my colleagues here, and which is not yet on the council agenda. And then this would be the fifth if passed. Next slide please. Okay. And just a quick overview of how this got here. I mentioned earlier it's version six. We started working on this in August. We consulted with the administration before we ever drafted anything. We then drafted something, met again with them. We paused it in October while working on the sanctuary city codification work, and then in November, later October and November brought it back up, got some community input, made a couple more rounds of feedback with the administration as well, and this is the first time it's being presented publicly. Next slide please. All right. Four key components of the legislation masking, identification verification and documentation. We're going to go through each of these in brief. And then we're going to talk about some questions that may come up. First. The purpose of this under masking is to establish a standard that masks are not commonly acceptable for law enforcement in the city of Portland. While we only can direct our Portland police bureau employees directly as our employees, it is important for us to establish the standard for all law enforcement operating in our city. There's a legal sensitivity to make sure we're not specifically targeting any one type of law enforcement, and this is transparently an effort to avoid some of the legal issues that have come up in california, among other places, their key exemptions and exceptions that have been brought up thanks to engagement and feedback from our public safety service area, including the police bureau, including things like medical reasons to stop the spread of infection, occupational exposure like courthouses, for example, and cold weather. We're also including cert, which is what we call swat here, and undercover operations. We're defining it as near freezing with windchill factored in. Or plainly, if emergency warming shelters are open, then it's obviously going to be accepted that police officers can wear something to keep themselves warm. Next slide please, for identification. It benefits everyone to ensure that that we know the identification of of a law enforcement officer through things like a name tag, agency insignia, visible badge numbers, and basically what we're calling in this in the legal language indicia of authority, this is the things that you need to know to ensure that you're confident that someone claiming law enforcement authority has it. It is modeled off of pb's existing policy. There are some adjustments and there's still some elements we need to work out with them. Again, this is not a final draft. I just wanted to be transparent about that. Again with melissa hortman, the imposter had a uniform and a squad car, and we need to make sure that someone not only looks the part, but that their agency validates them. That's why we move into the next phase verification. When officers can't tell whether someone is a legitimate law enforcement officer and they're doing something that would be illegal if they were not law enforcement, then we are instructing Portland police to look into it. That can look like a phone call to your supervisor who calls someone in dc and verifies, is this actually somewhere where this agency is operating? It can also look like a voluntary conversation. Hey, are you ice? But it doesn't constitute a stop because it's just a preliminary investigation. Now, if reasonable suspicion exists, we then move forward into the next step. We've retained officer discretion and so that they know how to handle that best. But it starts generally with a call to the agency. This is legally compliant with federal standards for reasonable suspicion, because officers are not being directed to automatically arrest or detain. And again, they're recording the steps and information they receive. Which leads me to documentation, which occurs primarily through body worn camera. When the cameras don't capture the information, there will be an incident report and what was seen, what was investigated, what indicia of authority was observed. This creates a record that can be used by the attorney general at a later date, which serves a legal structure and builds an institution beyond just us here at the city. I also just want to recognize that we are very explicit that this ordinance is not designed because it's illegal to supersede federal or state law, and that we also recognize that we have to be in compliance with that law, including the public employees collective bargaining act. And together, the goal is that we'll have you will have a right to know who is policing you. Next slide, please. I want to just quickly talk about some feedback we've received and some potential concerns that have been raised. And you'll see each slide in this series has things on the left that we've heard or that have been speculated about, and just some additional information. And I also want to be transparent as we get towards the end. There are a couple of things we're still working on. So there's a claim that the feds will not comply with rules around masking, and that we can't require PPB to hinder a federal investigation, but the ordinance doesn't do that. It determines masking and identification rules for a standard for verification. In fact, not only is there no requirement to hinder a federal investigation, it explicitly states that once someone is verified as federal law enforcement, PPB will actually disengage. There are implications throughout this on what happens if there's the verifications that are already happening now, without this legal protection of the ordinance, and with it as well. Next slide please. There was a concern raised that this might ban good mask usage, such as the use of n95 or kn95 by PPB or masking during hazmat incidents, or that this is somehow trying to make a broader anti-mask statement for the broader public. As you can see, my office certainly doesn't believe in that. My staffer has a mask on right now. We are definitely in support of the idea of that in this ordinance clearly applies only to law enforcement. In fact, it also specifically requires exemptions for medical or public health and occupational safety, which includes those hazmat type of situations. Next slide please. There's a conversation around mutual aid, which is when police from different jurisdictions have agreements to assist each other. The claim is other jurisdictions won't want to follow this when rendering aid to PPB, or that the department of justice, the federal department of justice, could claim that increasing our standards might cause us to be out of compliance with the settlement agreement. I want to be transparent. There is no reference in mutual aid to this, to mutual aid in this ordinance, but it would apply to all of the the partners that we have. But state law is going to require policies of all law enforcement agencies around masks. There's a conversation going on right now at the state. We already have rules that apply in our jurisdiction. Our laws are not 100% identical to Gresham or lake oswego, and we are already expecting that there's a compliance with that. And I want to just start by saying or I guess, conclude this part by saying that the settlement agreement, we've already seen the feds try to weaponize that against us. We fought back against that. We'll keep fighting back against that. Next slide, please. There was an assertion made to us that we would need criminal penalties for police officers if they don't comply. There are no criminal penalties in this ordinance. We don't believe that those criminal penalties are necessary. Instead, the ordinance simply requires documentation and conversations with supervisors for exemptions. We also got a request to look at a community portal to file footage of potential imposters or report noncompliance. We haven't responded to that yet. It's just something we we heard, and I want to acknowledge that transparently, but say it's still in progress. Next up, there was a claim that any verification is illegal, and I want to start by saying the protections of the supremacy clause apply to people that can prove that they're feds, because before that, anyone can just say anything. The federal reasonable suspicion suspicion standard reply requires a very clear set of circumstances to engage in a stop. We've broken up verification into two parts a purely voluntary part where we're calling the agency or asking, but nobody is obligated to respond. And then if and only if reasonable suspicion exists, then police officers can proceed as they already would by investigating, including potentially making a stop. Next slide please. We got pushback on having too many exemptions for masks that allowing it for cold or protective purposes create too many exemptions. I want to thank the public safety service area for engaging with us from the beginning on this and talking about it. Each exemption was carefully constructed, and PPB specifically gave input into that. Our goal is to avoid undue restriction and maintain operational capacity. And I also want to note that after an ordinance gets passed, PPB would implement these through their directives. That's just one of the steps that would happen. Next slide please. There's a conversation around state preemption. I'd speak to the bill's sponsors regularly, including earlier today. The state law actually just simply makes a requirement that we do something like this and that every jurisdiction in the state do it. It's designed to create a floor next slide. And then I want to be transparent. Not everything got resolved. We're still working on a few things. This is version six and version seven. We've got a few things we're working on ensuring that we're aware of what impacts this would have on PPB capacity and resource needs. There is an open conversation happening about what the exact requirements are for PPB to to display on uniforms. But but that's really about what the federal agents would display on uniforms. We just need to get some consultation on its impact locally. And then broadly speaking, we want to make sure that this makes sense not only to lawyers, but it makes sense to everybody. So there's clarity of language across the entire document. Go to the next slide please. And actually before we do that I'm going to pause here. And I'm going to welcome up the folks from the public safety service area. And then I'll have a couple minutes to wrap up after the end of it. I just want to thank I think we have assistant chief hughes from the Portland police bureau, deputy city administrator cozy. I know we've got a couple other folks in the back from psa, and thanks for being here as well.
21 Co-chairs and members of the.
22 Excuse me, I'm bob cozzie dca of public safety, and thank you for this opportunity to address the proposed ordinance. Today. I am committed, along with the entire service area, to working with council to enact sound operational legislation that genuinely protects our community. We can all understand that the federal government's recent actions have been alarming and deeply disturbing. Communities across our nation feel threatened for their lives and safety. Many of us have been directly and indirectly traumatized by what we've witnessed and, as we've heard, testified repeatedly in these chambers, many live in daily fear of what is to come. As an air force veteran, I am personally heartbroken over what I'm seeing as I contemplate the importance of supporting and defending our constitution. Those of us who have dedicated our careers to public safety must state unequivocally. Due process is a cornerstone of American justice. As deputy city administrator of public safety, I take the safety and security of our community very seriously. As chief de often says, our duty is to reduce both crime and the fear of crime in Portland. Chief de is speaking at the law at the house judiciary today to discuss a short session proposal. As mentioned earlier, the law enforcement accountability and visibility act, where he will be sharing some of the following. Ppb has invested years building trust, particularly with immigrant communities and communities of color. Local police exist to promote public safety, not to enforce federal immigration policy. That distinction matters legally, operationally, and most importantly, to the people we serve. Over the past year, public confusion has intensified as residents encountered armed officers whose identities and authority remain unclear. When people cannot readily distinguish local law enforcement from federal agents operating under separate mandates, trust erodes rapidly, and that erosion doesn't stop with one agency. It spreads to every officer wearing a badge. As many of you know, PPB testified in federal court, which resulted in a court decision to disallow the mobilization of national guard troops into the streets of our city and state. This, along with a concerted approach from council, executive, administrative and legal offices, has been one of our city's greatest successes. As I mentioned before, I'm committed to working with city council to enact sound operational legislation that truly does protect our community. And now I'd like to introduce assistant chief brian hughes to discuss some of the administration's perspective with the legislation currently as written.
23 Good afternoon, co-chairs and members of the community and public safety committee, as well as all the people that have joined us today in the council chambers. For the record, my name is brian hughes, and I'm the assistant chief of the operations division for the Portland police bureau. It's an honor to be here, and I appreciate being invited into this space and share some of my perspective. The I appreciate the the powerpoint that you just delivered. Chair canal. That's the first that I had been able to lay eyes on that. So part of the thing that I'm going to talk about today has to do a lot with what you've put up there, and I do appreciate that you called out at the beginning of this that this is not a vote to pass this on. This is more of a conversation. So some of the issues that you've already highlighted, I will also highlight, and I'm looking forward to continued conversation on these topics. I have a slide show prepared and we'll bring that up. So the overview for where we're going to go today is just some core considerations that I want to raise from the police bureau standpoint. They'll be falling into three buckets legal, operational and labor. Next slide. We'll jump right into the legal aspects. The Portland police bureau will always follow Oregon and federal law as well as our court obligations. I want to highlight that federal law does supersede local law and ordinances under the supremacy clause. As you've already called out, the city has no authority to require federal agents to unmask or identify themselves. The doj settlement agreement requires that any change to identification standards for us or reporting must remain compliant with our already preexisting federal oversight, so they would need to be partners involved in this as well. The PPB already requires officers to display identification when it is practical, safe, and tactically feasible. These standards are trained, audited and enforceable through discipline. And I'm pleased to say that when you see our Portland police officers operating out in the community, they don't look anything like what we've seen with some of the federal response here in Portland. The officers don't wear masks. In fact, I personally in the vehicle I drive have been asked if because I drive an unmarked car, if I am a federal law enforcement officer. And, you know, we start by showing my face and clearly I am not. And I'm here talking to you. So I just want to highlight a quick little story there. But back to some more operational consideration. I'm sorry, we're still on legal considerations. The ordinance restates these requirements, but removes the safety and feasibility direction that allows them to function in a real world. Conditions when highlight near freezing. That's subjective. And when we talk about that, you know, that looks different. For me, being a six foot tall person with a little extra fat on my body than somebody that maybe doesn't look like me. So some subjective aspects there. The city attorney's office has confirmed that Portland cannot compel federal officers to unmask, alter appearance or identify themselves. Federal agencies simply will not follow this city code. So therefore the ordinance only applies to PPB. Even though many of these concerns relate to federal activity and appearance based criteria cannot operate as mandatory triggers for detention or enforcement, officers must rely on the totality of circumstances analysis to remain within constitutional limits. And I noted in your draft that there was some discussions in trying to identify what reasonable suspicion is versus what probable cause is, and we train that in a legal environment to our officers to understand what that is. So that's a real world operation that they operate in, and to codify that and say that this, this, this is reasonable suspicion or probable cause is very problematic for us in our world. We operate often on court of appeals opinions that get into the weeds and get into the details to discuss that, so that the legal court system is already addressing these issues. Kind of where dc started to go with us testifying regarding the national guard. Also add that I was one of those people that testified on behalf of that, and it was an honor to do that for the city of Portland. And I was proud to do it. And we won. That's the area where I think a lot of this should reside. So if we can move to next slide, please. Operational considerations. People cannot interfere with or hinder federal operations. The concern I have for my officers is by articulating what exactly they should do in these situations. I always look at that and wonder, what if one of those things is not present? Then what's the next step? And I have a concern that for officers, they're not able to take that next step. And should they interfere with the federal investigation, which probably would be claimed if one of my Portland police officers tried to do that, that that would then be used against the officer and potentially title 18 and section 111 of the united states code, which talks about interfering with federal law enforcement. And I just want to ensure that we keep our fellow coworkers, our Portland police members, away from that. Let's see. Let me continue on with where I was. The ordinance creates a permanent reporting requirement that will significantly increase administrative workload and require additional record staffing without the fte authorization for those staff members to do that. I did not bring the numbers on what that would look like, what we anticipate that would look like. I can drill down in that and we can address that in further conversations. Uniform and name tag changes would also cost approximately $560,000, by our estimate, and take 18 months to two years to implement. Many of you already know this, but Portland police officers badge numbers are not on their badge. And I know that's traditionally when you hear, like in the media, people ask, I want your badge number. Well, we don't have them on our badge. We have dps numbers which are issued by the state of Oregon. And that's traditionally the way we identify. And those that's how we would identify. So altering that and new name tags and everything else that comes with a cost. And it's an unfunded cost at this moment. The documentation requirements placed on patrol supervisors will slow response times, reduce proactive work, and increase potentially increase backlog. The ordinance narrows officer discretion without providing alternative protections, leaving officers vulnerable and crowd management, hazmat conditions and medical situations. Operational clarity becomes strained because PPB is expected to follow rules that cannot be applied uniformly to all law enforcement in the city. The mutual aid topic that you had up on the screen, that's real Thursday night and Friday night, in anticipation of potential unrest, we called upon our partners with the Oregon state police to come join us. That's a very recent example, but over the years we have had challenges with outside agencies coming to assist us, and certainly this could present another challenge for them doing that. And it can be very taxing on your coworkers and my members when they're out there night after night after night doing this. So I just want to highlight that next slide please. We'll get into some labor considerations. I understand that we do have some representatives, potentially from the city attorney's office that may be able to expand on these issues for you, but some of the points I pulled identified identification standards, masking rules and additional documentation directly affect working conditions and officer safety. I talked about earlier with that subjective nature of what near-freezing means, and I will also highlight that that could be different at 102 in glisan out in district one than it does look down here at six and alder here in district four. These matters are likely mandatory subjects of bargaining under labor law. Negotiations with the Portland police association just started, and that would certainly be an area where they would want to be at the table when it comes to these discussions, right. Affects their membership. Implementing these requirements without bargaining risks grievances which are costly, unfair labor practice complaints or delays in implementation and collective bargaining requirements also necessitate changes to the ordinance language before it could be operationalized. And next slide please. So some main takeaways. Many of the elements of the ordinance are already achieved through our existing PPB policy, which requires identification while preserving unnecessary safety discretion. Several key goals of the ordinance cannot be met because federal officers are not subject to city code and will not comply with these requirements. Other provisions cannot be implemented due to constitutional limits, officer safety concerns, and mandatory bargaining obligations. The result is a measure that places significant operational, financial, and potential legal burden on PPB without achieving its intended transparency outcome. And those are just some thoughts I had, and I believe I'm going to turn it back over to dca for some closing comments.
24 Yeah, just in closing, excuse me. You know, ac, who spoke on a very high level of some of the concerns that that the service area has with the existing version of the legislation. We also have ron zito from bhr, heidi brown from the attorney's office here to answer specific questions that might be helpful for this committee. And again, I want to thank this committee for allowing us to speak to this proposal. Thank you.
25 Thank you, thank you. Chief hughes. I also just wanted to take a second to thank chief dobson. I know for the comments he'd given and the national guard case, and you mentioned the records clerks who I know are often forgotten when we talk about PPB, but the professional staff there are appreciated for their work as well. And certainly records work at PPB might be the hardest records job in the city, maybe the state. So thank you for that. We'll go back to slide 30 just a little bit to wrap up here. And I appreciate the comments here. And I appreciate the, the the information that's been provided over the course of the last, I don't know, six months now to to try and help us build something and hopefully build it better when we get to version seven. I also wanted to take the chance to thank the hundreds of people who have emailed, called, or otherwise contacted our office, the 139 and counting people who submitted written testimony in advance of today, the community based organizations who provided feedback, and of course, the people who haven't yet testified. But you signed up and you're about to and I just wanted to quickly highlight a couple of those themes that we heard. We have a broader opposition to mask use by law enforcement, generally, a desire for documentation. This is the next slide, please, so that federal law enforcement or anyone who's non-compliant can be held accountable later. Maybe when there's a government that is willing to do that at the federal level, support for visible identification that can be matched. And that's names and faces a commitment to transparency and accountability. And I will also say, because this has come up a lot, we've got a lot of clarifying questions after this has come out, because I think this is something that we need to make sure community understands. One thing I didn't bring up is there is a risk that I want to acknowledge that, that people might think this does more than it does, or that we've raised the expectation of pb's involvement higher than is realistic. And I just want to make a commitment publicly that whether it's now while we're discussing it or afterwards, that we're going to be transparent about the limitations of what this legislation can do and not over promise, because I want to both for the sake of our employees at the Portland police bureau and for the public's expectation. It's good to be transparent. And I'll close with again what we what we believe that you have a right to know as portlanders. And I want to thank everyone for the for the information, for the presentation, for taking the time to listen here. Please feel free to email my office at councilor Kanal at Portland Oregon.gov. If you have more information you'd like to share with us or thoughts, please feel free to testify on anything you've heard here or are about to hear in our discussion. And with that, I'm going to. Before we get to public testimony, there's time for clarifying questions. I'm going to let co-chair Novick chair that part.
26 Thank you. Chair canal councilor Morillo.
27 Thank you. Chair Novick. Could we have the public safety folks come back up here? Because I think my questions are mostly for you. And while you get back up here, I just want to say, councilor Kanal, thank you for bringing this ordinance forward. I know that councilor Smith had been in discussions about this before, and this is such a median important policy, and we do have so many different entanglements and restrictions with the federal level. But I also think that from what I've read in this policy, I don't think that this applies to those restrictions because of the way that you crafted it. So I think my question to the police bureau is if we I understand that you cannot intervene in federal enforcement, right. Because then that would be putting the much more highly funded militarized ice agency against our somewhat militarized pbb, but significantly less than the federal government. Well, I'm just being honest. Okay. We have look, but if if you cannot even know that an ice agent is an agent and they are a masked rando, that could be pulling someone into a van, how could you be accused of, like, legally of intervening with ice if we have no idea who these people are? To me, that seems like you would be doing your job as an officer to verify who that person is, because no one knows who they are.
28 Yeah. Thank you for the question, commissioner Morillo. And the the part that that causes me concern with the ordinance, frankly, is the is the exact number of requirements for identification that an officer must go through to include a clear face, an identification, all the things we have regularly worked out in the field, not with ice agents, but in the field where ice agents are operating to be able to interact with and see what that looks like. And in most recently, the chief's office has given direction for when community has concerns to call us in our direction to our officers is that we will respond. And in those cases, when an officer goes out, for example, if they see the the patches that you all see on the back of a maybe a vest that say dhs and that kind of thing, when we see multiple of those and other things, badges, dhs badges and things like that, that is, is that's what satisfies that for us when it comes to our these federal law enforcement officers or not. The concern I have is that if it's not all of the things that that puts the officer potentially in violation of the ordinance by not doing all of those things.
29 Yeah, I understand that. But also I can order a jacket that says like fed whatever on amazon any day of the week, and I could start kidnaping random people if maybe if I work out, I can start kidnaping random people. I don't know, but it's very it's very easy to impersonate someone. And aren't these things that officers need to think about according to the ordinance, but they already need to think about them in order to assess reasonable suspicion? So why would you be uniquely worried about this ordinance, as opposed to just these are things that you factor in when you're doing an assessment?
30 Well, it's codifying a totality. You know what ultimately ends up being a totality of the circumstances? It the officers, they may look different depending on what what situation it is. There may be some at present at one and not all present at another. So the situations, to be frank, present differently to you. And when it's, you know, when there are people that are buying the jacket off of amazon, like you said, I will highlight that the person that that committed the crime in the other state, taking the lives of the legislators, was ultimately captured by law enforcement.
31 Yeah.
32 And they used the tools necessary to them to capture that. None of this ordinance would have prevented that from from happening.
33 Right. And I think that this already conforms to the reasonable suspicion standards and the language of the ordinance says, including but not limited to as far as the things that you have to identify. So I'm just not seeing I'm struggling to wrap my head around the pushback. And so I'm asking some of these questions as clarification before we get testimony. I will pause there.
34 Well, councilor, I'll also I'll also offer that councilor Our chair canal at the beginning of this, articulated that this was more of a we're an ongoing conversation. We're taking feedback from each other and that we're continuing to discuss these as we go. So we're a learning organization. And that's one of the reasons why I'm here.
35 Councilor Smith.
36 Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Co-chair, I have a question. Is, is aaron schmitz here? Is aaron here? Could could you come up to the diocese, please? I have a concern. Could you explain to me how this may interrupt with labor practices or contracts if this if this goes forward?
37 Sure. You know, we we did begin and agreed to ground rules for our successor bargaining agreement yesterday. Actually, I was made aware of this ordinance months ago. I would I would hesitate to say, I mean, and I have sent, I think four or 5 or 7 emails regarding our concerns about the bargaining implications. Anything that has to do with, you know, changes in policy, changes in equipment, changes in safety, our subjects and also things which there would be discipline if you do not follow said ordinance, are subject to mandatory bargaining. Our contract with the longest consistently running police union in the country. It's very mature. There's a lot of substance to it, and so it is critical that we ensure that as we move forward, we understand any changes and we bargain those. There is long standing rules surrounding once a successor bargaining agreement begins, all discussions around changes to said contract should take place at the table, not at many tables. And we actually, you know, our big concern here is while we're bargaining with the city and our successor bargaining, that we can be sure that we're doing that in one place, not in many.
38 Apologies at risk right now.
39 It is the perspective of the ppa that having this conversation, you know, we're happy to have this conversation at the bargaining table. If council wishes to have conversations around subjects which are mandatory for bargaining, we would love to have those conversations and discuss and debate those in bargaining.
40 Mr. Co-chair, could you address this? Is this something that we need to deal with right now?
41 I think that today is just a discussion, okay. And we've got ten minutes for council discussion written into the here. So I think it's something we can take up offline. We don't have to resolve it today okay.
42 Excellent. Thank you. Thank you for your response.
43 Thank you.
44 Thank you counselor Smith. So I maybe I just posed these questions. You might have time to answer them. One thing is if heidi brown is here, I'm depressed to hear it stated definitively that we simply cannot make federal agents take take their masks off. And they. Heidi, your name was taken in vain. I just want to know if you were comfortable coming up and confirming that. If you're not comfortable with it, please tell me.
45 Good afternoon. Councilors co-chairs heidi brown, chief deputy city attorney. And I'm sorry, the question was about enforcing this against.
46 The saying that. I mean, it was stated that under the supremacy clause, we simply can't make the federal officers take their masks off.
47 I think that if if provided, there's reasonable suspicion that a crime may have occurred, for example, a kidnaping, then then you would treat it like any any kidnaping if you have reasonable suspicion, if at some point that reasonable suspicion dissipates, that's that's when the supremacy clause then inhibits our law enforcement from requiring federal officers to do things.
48 Okay, I wasn't actually thinking about the reasonable suspicion thing. I was just thinking about. In general, this ordinance says that officers shall not wear masks except under certain circumstances. And I think the assertion was made that that would not apply to federal officers. And I just want to know, is that that absolutely certain or is that something that could be litigated or whatever.
49 The the case law on clause would make it extremely challenging for the city to prevail on that. I hate to say that we would absolutely, definitively lose on anything because I'd always like to keep my options open, but it would be extremely challenging for us to prevail.
50 That's what I want to know. The other thing I wanted to say is that I. I came in here kind of a question for councilor Kanal is, do we really think that I would kind of hope that under existing practices, if somebody is grabbing somebody and there's absolutely no indication there's a federal agent, then our officers would of course, intervene. So I was going to ask councilor Kanal if he really thinks there are instances where federal agents are grabbing people and there's no or people pretending to be federal agents are grabbing people, there's no indication they are agents. And our cops aren't doing anything. Based on what chief said about the concern about liability, I now am a little worried that that, you know, that makes me a little more worried that maybe that would happen. So in the course of one minute that each of you could, like, give you a 32nd response to that. I mean, is it is this something we really should be worried about? And if I'll leave it at that. First, you, chief hugues.
51 So if you're asking me if this is something to be worried. I cannot think of any time in the city of Portland where that's happened, where somebody has put on a vest and done this. I also have confidence in the police officers as they're out patrolling around. Should they see something like this happen? A person wearing no identification whatsoever and doing that? Absolutely. They would engage.
52 Okay. And councilor Kanal, the question to you is, do you think that this is have there been examples where the police haven't intervened, where there's no indication somebody is a fed?
53 I'd be happy to show multiple examples of people contacting my office with the assertion that there have been calls to the to our 911 center in which the response has been, if it's if it's ice, the Portland police will not engage with it. Now, that's that's what I'm hearing. I want to stress I have not heard. Sorry.
54 If you want. I asked people to keep any commentary non verbal and nonverbal jazz hands is one thing. Staffing is another thing. Councilor Kanal.
55 Yeah, so. So I don't want to sit here and tell you I think it's definitively true. I'm just telling you I'm hearing it. And so I, I'm happy to show a lot of examples of that. The other piece of it is this is not just about in the event where they're already there. It's also about if there's a call coming in to respond to that situation. And I can tell you, looking at the reports I hear from the schools in my district, that a lot of the examples we're hearing about, particularly fathers being accosted as they're dropping off their students, are being done by people who don't have credible indicia of law enforcement authority. Okay.
56 I think we should now move on to public testimony. So I return the gavel.
57 I'll just make one quick note, which is I'm happy also to help connect if there's things that might be better in an attorney client privilege setting so that heidi can give more information to anyone who may want it.
58 Councilor if I may ask just a clarifying question you had mentioned. Sounds anecdotal calls to 911 told that PPB would not respond to these types of calls. Is that.
59 Yeah, can interfere with ice. I mean I have I have emails, I have you know in 311 there's a lot of this that has come into my office.
60 Okay. If you wouldn't mind forwarding all of that information to me because I would like to investigate that.
61 Thank you.
62 All right. I will.
63 Shift gears now to the public testimony side, and then we'll come back and do some councilor Discussion after that. I want to note that we did have diana. How many people have signed up for public testimony?
64 We currently have 49 people signed up for public testimony.
65 Okay, so I believe this has already gone out or been said, but that does mean that when we have this time limitation and this that we are giving two minutes per, I do want to stress that the faster we're able to have the first few people heard, the more likely it is that we have time for the 49th person. And I have no idea what the order is. I'm trying to get through everything. We'll try to keep the record open so that people can testify again in the future, and that your written testimony doesn't need to be submitted twice. I do want to thank everyone again for submitting the written testimony. I have it here, so please do keep the the jazz hands as the primary form of response. With that, diana, will you please call up our first panel of testifiers?
66 Sure. I'll call up four people at a time. If you are in the room, come up to the table. If you are online, you can unmute yourself. So first, catherine jimenez, m amaziah jeffs and nancy weeden. Weyden. Oh, and please identify yourself when you start. Thank you.
67 Thank you council. My name is catherine jimenez. As we've seen the horrors unfold in minnesota across the country by dhs terror campaign, the majority of the nation is now realizing something portlanders have known since the summer. This is not about public safety. This is about instilling chaos and complicity by fear into the electorate. And we knew this was inevitable. We knew this after witnessing one of our own mothers being dogpiled by agents, face first into the mud for wearing a banana suit and playing the clarinet. We knew this would happen. After witnessing dozens of attempts of vehicular manslaughter by federal agents peeling out of the macadam facility, narrowly missing pedestrians. We knew this would happen when the majority of ice detainments reported in 2025 occurred at places of work, at places of worship, at courthouses, at schools. We knew this would happen, coming from the same police department that cost the city over $22 million in settlements alone. We heard multiple times from public briefings last week that community trust and police bureaus is slipping. It's gone as far as this community has seen. Ppb and other bureaus have made it clear who they are protecting the same masked, untrained, volatile individuals who are desecrating what it means to be a public servant. This policy is the bare minimum for building back community trust and proving us wrong in that matter, for public safety offices. And while I could go on to recount the failures of our local law enforcement that deters from the greater message here that a mother was shot and killed in the face, dropping her kid off in school and the guy who did it, this alleged agent called her an effing b real professional in terms of law enforcement. And to honor her legacy, I had a poem that I was wanting to read, but it looks like we're not going to have time for that. Please look up a new national anthem by ADA limon, the 24th elected poet laureate of the united states. And please remember keith porter, junior silverio gonzalez and all others who have lost their lives and are still missing due to this evil, hateful agenda. Stand up. Fight for your community. This is what we want. Thank you. Council.
68 All right, we're ready to move. Okay. I'm m.b. And I'm testifying in support of this ordinance. But, you know, let me make this clear. This is the bare minimum. And in no way is this going to be the thing that will save us. And, you know, quite frankly, I doubt pb or the feds will comply with it. The only benefit of this ordinance is the specific information that bpb might collect for reports. And again, that's only if they comply with it. To ensure that information is gathered, I suggest implementing a system for community report pb officers that don't try to collect data, essentially a tool for community members to hold them accountable. Along with that, like actual punitive repercussions for officers who don't comply with this. You know what? Comply with what's being required of them. And, you know, I think we all know pb has a sordid history of racism, killing and maiming community members, a history that mirrors that of ice. I hate, you know, I hate to make a moral plea to the cops of all people, but pb should be jumping at the opportunity to arrest and convict actual criminals, actual vile, murderous scum. And again, I'll wrap this up by once again demanding that the permit to the macadam facility be revoked. How many more community members have to be disappeared and killed before we stop giving them a. Oh, sorry, a home base to operate out of in the city. You want to dismantle ice brick by brick. Then I suggest getting rid of their disgusting fortress they operate out of in here. Like, what do we got? 30s left. All right. Also not really understanding why we're putting the safety of pb officers over our community members. Let's like. That's laughable. It's really laughable. You sign up for this job. If pb is going to do one good thing. Well, you know the the police are even still a thing. This might as well be it. So.
69 Hi, my name is amzie. I'm a resident of st. Johns and an organizer with socialist alternative, and I want to speak in favor of councilor Kanal legislation. Ice has escalated from terrorizing communities to outright murder in recent months, and we need every piece of legislation possible to disrupt their operations. Councilor, Green and Morillo have spoken in recent months about the need to throw sand in the gears of ice's operations. I completely agree with that and support this legislation in that spirit. But I think as socialists, we also have to go further point towards dismantling the whole capitalist machine that turns those gears in the first place. And when it comes to legislation like today, or to further reaching proposals like revoking revoking the ice facility permit, which I do want to be on the record in support of. Yeah, I think we've we've heard understandable hesitation about that. We've heard about the supremacy clause, the stacked conservative courts, the fact that federal forces can just, you know, ignore laws that we pass here. And all of that's true. It's obstacles we have to overcome. I think we have to recognize that the victories against trump and his administration aren't going to happen in the halls of power. They're going to happen in the streets. They're going to happen with mass workplace action, like a coordinated one day strike. And yeah, we need to use the legislative process, right. And the resources of elected office to raise people's sights in that direction, to push the envelope. Right, even tear it open, respectfully, I think go further than brick by brick. And the pace we're approaching that, I think, yeah, we need to be raising the confidence of workers, of young people, immigrants, everyone oppressed by capitalism to take matters into their own hands, shut down businesses as usual with mass coordinated action, class struggle. Right? That's where the actual power to defeat trump and get through those legislative obstacles lies. And I think that's actually exactly what dozens of unions, socialist groups and rapid response networks in minneapolis have come together and called for just this morning. They're calling for a day without shopping and without work. A one day strike on January 23rd, minneapolis to shut down ice. So I think we need to take that kind of approach here to use legislation like councilor Kanal really relentlessly as a springboard to point in that direction. Thank you. Solidarity.
70 Thank you for your testimony. Diana. Will you please call up the next group?
71 Nancy, you're online. You can start.
72 Sorry.
73 Hi. Yes, my name is nancy moreno. Weighed in, and I'm here today as a concerned community member. I'd like to say that although I do support the mask ordinance, I would like to say that part of me feels or wonders that. Are we even past this point now? Every day there is some new tragedy happening that is affecting our most vulnerable communities, which is the immigrant population. And I can't help but notice what is happening in other cities or not happening in other cities that have also put the mask ordinance to to on, and how dhs and ice is not complying with that, and how the trump administration has in some ways stopped it from actually taking effect. The fact that in minneapolis, a concerned community member like myself was murdered in cold blood right in front of her family and friends and community. That should be the alarming, the alarm sounding off for that, the alarm sounding off that we, us, our community needs something more than just the mask ordinance to stop the injustices that we are all witnessing. The fact that dhs and isis methods of shooting first and asking questions later had two of our own community members tragically shot is an outrage, to say the least. I call on all you city elected council members to please, please remember what made you want to be up there in the position that you are today. What prompted you to want to make a change for your community, and did you hold your elected city council members or officials accountable when they when you were where I am now on this side as a constituent on on the matters that were important to you and or like in our case, in a matter of life or death, we urge you to please get creative, make some good trouble, I don't care, but get ice out of our communities by revoking the permit. Thank you.
74 Thank you to all of our testifiers.
75 Next we have beatrice ibarra, blair glennon, cassidy kimball, and I believe I have a duplicate here, catherine jimenez. So we'll skip to liz kay after that.
76 Where beatrice is. All right.
77 Thank you. And feel free to start whenever you're ready.
78 Okay. Hello, my name is blair glennon. I am a resident of district two and would like to speak in favor of this ordinance. Standing up to people in power is sometimes messy and unpleasant. It doesn't always make powerful friends happy. I spoke up when my former workplace legacy, emanuel, was colluding with ice and it did not go well. They did not change their policies. I am now temporarily unemployed and uninsured person, but it still 100% worth it for all of us to stand up for our community members being targeted by ice. I want to point out that Portland police are not the victims in this circumstance. They can continue to use weaponize victimization as much as they would like. They are still not the victims. Councilors. Zimmerman. Hopefully you will look back at public testimony. I read your new years newsletter. You spoke as though federal overreach and ice issues. You spoke about federal overreach and ice issues as if they were solved. You should be especially concerned about this issue, given the ice facility that is used as a home base to terrorize entire Portland metropolitan area is in your district. Please push this ordinance forward. Thank you. That's.
79 You can start.
80 Okay. Members of the council, members of the council and the terrified citizens of Portland. We are in the middle of an unstable and dangerous part of our history. People are being ripped from their families, assaulted, kidnaped and then taken without any accountability or documentation. These federal officers have been allowed to run rampant and destroy innocent people's lives in the name of the government, in public, in plain sight. They hide their faces, refuse to give identification of any kind, and have even started shooting people point blank while being surrounded by cameras. With that, they are still continuing to lie. They are using fear and violence to try to force the the public and state and city governments to comply. They are now currently going door to door in minneapolis after the devastating murder of renee nicole. Good. Door to door. In what world does that constitute the parameters of border patrol? The state and city govts are just standing by and allowing our constitutional rights to erode in front of our very eyes. While I'm glad to see legislation being brought forth on this matter, there is more that needs to be done and soon. We don't have 18 months to two years to implement something as small as uniform and name tag changes, and that's not fast enough. We're asking for more accountability and action from our government. Again, with some of the things you need to revoke the permit. There is a whole home base here in our city. They are allowed to bring people. They are leaving there in unmarked cars every single day. They're pushing people down. They're tear gassing. I'm a nanny. I work with children. One of the families that I nanny for lives in that apartment building right next to them. They're tear gassing and pepper spraying and all that stuff. Every single day. They had to move like they are destroying the city. They are. This is not safe. We cannot have them here. Please work on revoking the permit. Also, having not requiring officers to detain people impersonating federal, state or city officers that are currently pretending and with their identities and are using armed forces and fear and intimidation tactics on the public. There's racism prevalent. I don't understand what we're doing. Please take action.
81 Apologies, but could you state your name for the record?
82 Oh, cassidy kimball.
83 Thank you so much. Still looking for beatrice or liz k? All right, we'll move along then to. Oh, we got thank you so much. Join. You can start whenever you're ready.
84 Okay. Good afternoon. I am a resident of district one and I am speaking in support of this mask ordinance. But I also have a pivotal question for the council that hinges on whether or not if this ordinance passes, it will actually impact public safety. How can we expect PPB to hold ice accountable for following the law, such as this mask ordinance, when PPB will not even hold their own people accountable? And they've also shown that they are not willing to hold the agents accountable for when they break the laws as well. I have personally witnessed PPB giving preferential treatment towards ice, selectively enforcing laws around the ice facility. Just in the mcadam area alone. Officers have refused to take testimony from people who have witnessed a crime, refuse to investigate suspicious platelets, vehicles or people, refuse to investigate reckless driving endangering pedestrians and have often taken the side of maga aggressors working seemingly in tandem with maga to oppose a to oppress protesters. Freedom of speech just days ago and I hope we all saw the video, a PPB officer essentially told a protester there that he would have shot renee nicole good if put in the same situation and PPB is response was not to address this very serious danger, but to reassign him. Additionally, many of us here in the community have witnessed Portland police turn a blind eye when ice is involved, or even just when officers guess that isis present. I would like it to be on the record that on October 21st, 2025, around 9 a.m. I saw a suspicious vehicle parked on moody avenue pointed towards the perc legal observer tent, providing resources and support to our neighbors going into the ice facility for their appointments. During this time, maga supporters were posting threats on social media showing ill intentions toward the newly opened perc resource center. The vehicle was completely black with black tint and no plates, and a man in a plaid jacket had been sitting idle, idle there, watching for an hour. I never call police because they always make things worse. But in that moment, not knowing the intentions of the man inside, I had to choose between the threat that I knew was an unknown threat in front of me.
85 Thank you for your testimony.
86 I just want these pictures.
87 Can you state.
88 For you if you hand it to her? Well.
89 Can you state your name for the record, please?
90 Liz k.
91 Thank you.
92 Thank you. Diana, can you please call up the next.
93 The next group we have is benjamin gilbert followed by jessie akins, then mark sherman and matt levine.
94 Thank you. Please go ahead whenever you're ready ben.
95 Thank you. Please state your name. Thank you. Sorry.
96 My name is ben gilbert, and I'm a volunteer lobbyist for the Portland democratic socialists of America. I want to thank committee chair canal for bringing this draft ordinance for discussion today. I'd also like to thank committee chair Novick and councilors Morillo and Smith for attending this meeting. And I'm disappointed to see councilor Zimmerman is absent today across the Portland metro area and the country. We've all seen masks, unidentified individuals, you know, claiming to be federal agents, abducting residents, our neighbors off the streets and out of our schools, homes and businesses. If anyone is depriving you of your freedom, you have a right to know who they are. Ice has declared war on our cities, and this is one meaningful step that our local elected officials can take to impact their operations and make it so that it's not as easy to get away with this kind of violence. There's a reason why they're masking their faces. It's because because the activities they are engaging in are violent, cruel, and deeply unpopular. If local law enforcement are opposed to laws that increase transparency, it begs the question, what do they have to hide? Just in the past week, we have seen local law enforcement engage in police brutality and express their sympathy with ice violence. Higher standards for law enforcement are good, whether that be local, county, state or federal. Thank you. I yield my time.
97 Thank you. Please go ahead.
98 Hi, my name is jesse akins. I am not a member of any of the organizations. I am a Portland resident and a disabled combat veteran of the united states army. The horrible story I'm about to tell you is true. Soon after the conclusion of operation desert storm. Saddam hussein ordered his military and federal police to enter the neighborhoods of mosul, iraq's northern city of 1.8 million people, not dissimilar to our own, and forcibly remove thousands of kurdish families from their homes. They drove them into the desert, separated the women and children, executed them with a single pistol round, then mowed the men down with automatic weapons and bulldozed the bodies into two distinct pits they had excavated from the side of a ravine. In 2004, I, along with other members of my unit, guarded this site just a few miles outside of the town of el hatra. While forensic experts worked to identify the executed women and children for almost four months, they exhumed up to 40 bodies a day until only the inseparable mass of blackened human soup remained. Those we could not recover were recovered with the dirt and soil. They had hidden them for close to 15 years. We left the men to rest in their unjust grave. I don't tell you this story to be shocking. It is shocking. And if it wasn't, I'd be concerned for your humanity. I tell you this story because while we do know the names of saddam hussein, uday and qusay, his sons, and perhaps a few generals, we don't know the names of the others. The ones who did the task. They lived happy lives. Today we discuss how to respond as a community to similar beginnings of far too similar scenario in our own country and our own town. And I want you all to think forward. I want you to think about those who will extract, sort and catalog our remains from unmarked pits of black human soup. I want you to think of those, and how they will know the names of who put us there. The masks and the shadows.
99 Must be removed.
100 Thanks to law enforcement.
101 Thank you, thank you, thank.
102 You for your testimony.
103 They must be held accountable.
104 Thank you, thank you.
105 Mark is online.
106 Yeah. Mark, you can unmute and begin your testimony.
107 Thank you folks. My name is mark sherman. I totally support this legislation and anything that can make it stronger. I just wanted to comment that I have witnessed firsthand police brutality and police acting violently in crowds. I have called 911 and there was no response except to file a complaint with the independent police review board. That was not policy to intervene. Even if you see an officer doing something wrong, that was not something tpb would ever want to do. While people say they will intervene under circumstances, I'd like to know what circumstances those are because I've not really seen that from what they from what they're saying. What I'd like to know is, is there a situation where ice could be so excessive, so violent, so repressive that it would trigger something in one of our police officers where they would say, hey, that's enough. That's that's stepping across the line. I just have to get involved. I don't think that's the case during COVID. And I live over in the jade district, almost every asian business was vandalized, and in some cases people had video of the people doing the vandalizing. They would have people selling drugs and and drug dealing in front of restaurants. And the police would not come out and intervene at all. So while they have a union and while they say there's a lot of things they can't do, what I don't hear from PPB to help us with this is that they understand the problem we're trying to solve, and they want to provide suggestions or ways that they can act. That would help us yield the goal of making portlanders safer. If you're hoping the police will be your your aides and friends and partners in this, you might want to really think carefully. They're not going to follow what you say anyway, so you might as well just do the best legislation you can. Please continue to do so. And I thank you for your time.
108 Thank you.
109 Mark. You're free to or sorry matt, you're free to unmute.
110 Thank you. My name is matt levine. I'm here to express my intense and frankly, desperate support for councilor Nils draft ordinance to prohibit facial coverings, require badge visibility, and require identity verification for law enforcement. As usual, I would say the city actually needs to go much further than this. But as james baldwin famously said, not everything that is face can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. And this wisdom was intended as advice for those of us who want to work toward justice, love and healing in the world. If we're going to create that positive change toward justice and toward the city's core values of anti-racism, equity, transparency, community communication and collaboration, then we must face our problems head on. We must face each other. Masked law enforcement, quite literally can't be faced. And let's be clear, baldwin gave this advice to those of us wanting to work toward justice and healing because he understood those who are creating injustice and oppression were already aware of and weaponizing it. Denial, hiding, ignorance are all tools that those who harm community use daily. Those law enforcement officers who are hiding their faces are sending us a message. They intend to hurt us. They intend to do things that need to be hidden. They intend to murder people like keith porter junior and renee nicole goode. They intend to shoot our community members in east Portland, and they are not rogue agents. They are taking orders from trump, from nome, from homan, who prepared them with the language of domestic terrorism. So again, we need this ordinance from councilor Kanal to pass. But honestly, we need much, much more than that. We need our mayor, keith wilson, to do the same that the mayor of minneapolis has. We need to hear you screaming from the rooftops at ice, at cbp, at dhs to get the out of our city. Thank you.
111 Next up we have charlie, michelle, wesley, connor, lennon, and jane is marlene. Oh, and then ivan vargas. I didn't count correctly there.
112 Sorry. Go ahead. Can you hear me?
113 Yes. Go ahead.
114 I can hear you. Go ahead.
115 Okay. Thank you. And I'm sick, so bear with me. I am charlie michelle wesley, tribal member of the federally recognized confederated tribes of grand ronde, honoring this indigenous land now called Oregon. First, I want to thank councilor Canal for your efforts with this ordinance, these nightmare abductions of our immigrants and others because of this racist regime makes which makes any brown person a target, and those that stand with them and also includes the indigenous peoples of this land. For enrolled tribal members of the lakota sioux nation have been abducted. And after an attorney inquiry, it is still unknown their whereabouts. The genocide continues. Tribal members are being informed to say, I am a citizen of the federally recognized tribal nation under the indian citizenship act of 1924, all native people born within the territorial limits of the united states are recognized as u.s. Citizens by birthright. Because we are both tribal citizens and u.s. Citizens, ice has no lawful authority to detain us, and yet they do. I ask that the city of Portland include in this ordinance honoring various ids, especially our tribal ids and affiliations, since we they they just, you know, any brown person will do for them. Our northwest tribal nations are demanding answers regarding profiling of tribal members nationwide, despite having tribal ids on their person, they're being detained, uncertain of the legitimacy of the terrifying mass abductors, especially in unmarked vehicles, which should be a mandate in this ordinance to be marked not an option. Finally, we have no defense against militarized law enforcement. They hold all the power and we pay dearly because of it. When law enforcement are militarized, what does the military need? They need enemies. And that is us. Reminder the first core city values of anti-racism states action to dismantle institutional, systemic racism are the responsibility of every employee. And that goes on. But what what the city. I want to know what is the city's strategy to get the feds to literally get this hell out of Portland? The community deserves?
116 Thank you for your testimony.
117 Thank you for your testimony, connor. You can unmute and begin your testimony.
118 Awesome. Thank you guys. For the record, my name is connor lennon. Thank you, committee chair canal, for bringing this ordinance to the committee today. I think in today's day, we have all seen or heard or read about or watched a video or any of the above about ice activity in our neighborhoods or in other neighborhoods around this country. And I think with with this happening, there's also a wave of bad faith actors. And I appreciate this ordinance not just for the accountability that it's going to bring to Portland police bureau and the accountability that they're going to try to hold ice to, but also the accountability that we are now going to put on these bad faith actors to make sure that we don't have people that are not affiliated with any organization showing up in our communities and hurting our neighbors. That is absolutely unacceptable. And I think while we can talk as much as we want to about how this may make pb's job harder, frankly I don't care. I would rather see my neighbors alive and safe and going home every day to their families, their friends. That is more important to me than allowing domestic terrorism. By. I am in full support of this ordinance, and in any change that councilor Kanal would like to make to it, and that this committee sees fit, I'd like to yield the rest of my time. Thank you.
119 Thank you. Last call for jane is marlene or ivan vargas. Oh, I see you go for it.
120 To testify in support of the mask ordinance, it is clear the white house has no intention of slowing down their violence against immigrants and American citizens alike. Since the murder of renee nicole. Good. Last Wednesday, immigration agents have only continued to intensify the level of terror they're committing against innocent people. The mask ordinance is a step in the right direction towards creating accountability. However, we ask you not to just stop at that. We call on you to take whatever action necessary to throw a wrench in the gears of this fascist regime. The administration has completely thrown the concept of rule of law or civility out the window. Now is not the time for business as usual. Don't let them catch you from behind. You need to act with a sense of urgency. City council, we demand you pass the mask ordinance, revoke the ice permit and take actions, all actions possible to stand in solidarity with your fellow portlanders. Thank you.
121 Thank you for your testimony. Diana, could you please call the next panel of testifiers?
122 Next, we have darren hertzberg, isabella shepherd, karen cherry. Sorry, cherry, laura curry.
123 I believe I'm up next. Yeah. All right. Good afternoon, citizens of Portland. Many of you already know me, but for those that don't, my name is darren hertzberg. I'm a united states marine corps veteran, proud portlander and community activist. Started protesting right outside of this building. And it's an honor to speak to you now inside city hall on behalf of my friends, neighbors, and fellow portlanders. And thank you, councilor Kamal, for introducing this ordinance. I stand in support of it. Law enforcement, including federal officers, must be held accountable for their actions. Donald trump and his fascist goons want their secret police to get away with any and all crimes, which is why they mask up and hide their identities. When our friends and neighbors have their fifth amendment due process rights violated, it is done so anonymously, anonymously, by an overpaid, under-trained and thoroughly bigoted band of mercenaries with badges. When I was violently assaulted by dhs and ice officers in front of the macadam ice facility, I was unable to determine the identity of the officers that committed crimes against me. I still don't know the identity of the officer that sent me flying across the pavement. And the badge number of the officer 6160. That slammed my face repeatedly in the ground and told me not talking anymore. Are you? That was really fun moment, by the way. I really loved that. I know that they are trying to suppress our first amendment rights. Anyway, his information was not identifiable to me. I was only able to receive it when he was forced to give his badge number during my booking. And just last week, barely a day after the cold blooded murder of rene good, two portlanders were shot in their vehicle by federal agents. Who were these agents? Why did they flee the scene after firing on civilians? Where is their body cam footage? Where is the accountability? Pbb has not done enough to keep federal agents accountable for their crimes. They are more concerned with keeping us quiet while we're protesting. Just last week I was I was arrested for protesting out in front of the ice facility. I was being a little too loud for them, apparently. All right, we're gonna have to skip forward here. I'm going to call on city council to deputize us.
124 Thank you all. Let's do it. Thank you for your testimony. I think isabella is up next.
125 Hello, I'm isabella shepherd, representing pdx and the coalition for revoking the ice permit. I would like to support this ordinance. I'm not sure if I can. I would like to highlight that this is the first piece of legislation with any teeth regarding enforcement. I have argued before that PPB should be instructed to arrest dhs and ice because they are not above the law, and this ordinance does say PPB officers will issue commands, restrain or detain the person claiming to be a law enforcement officer. However, it is followed by if it is determined that the person is a law enforcement officer acting within the scope of lawful duties, PPB officers shall promptly end any continued detention or restraint and document the circumstances of the encounter. Any commands, restraint or detention must be limited in scope and duration to what is reasonably necessary to confirm or dispel the officer's reasonable suspicion, and to address legitimate safety concerns. In other words, PPB is explicitly prohibited from enforcing the mask ban once it is determined that they that the person they detain is in fact ice, it is effectively just another law forbidding impersonating an officer, which is already illegal. I fail to see the purpose of banning federal officers from concealing their identity. If you also forbid the police from enforcing the mask ban on federal officers in a context where ice has been given the budget equivalent to the 13th largest military in the world, where it has effectively declared war on our communities, where dhs didn't have to arrest anyone at the protest on Thursday because pbem was doing it for them, where a PPB officer stuck a pepper spray can in my face while screaming at me for protesting ice, and another officer grabbed my breasts where I shot two portlanders in broad daylight last week. We have to take bold action and not comply in advance. If you were to criminalize ice concealing their identities, but still allow them to snatch mothers from their homes as long as they show their faces, I would say go for it. But that's still not enough. But this ordinance, which effectively allows them to continue their heinous operations with or without a mask, is just not very useful.
126 Thank you. Please go ahead. Karen.
127 Okay. My name is karen cherry. I'm an army veteran, a business owner, and a resident of Portland. I'm here to express my belief that all individuals in our community, not just law enforcement, should be identifiable and unmasked. As we discuss the proposed city code, I want to emphasize the importance of transparency and accountability for everyone in our city. In my experience as a business owner, I've seen firsthand how masks can create barriers in communication and trust. Customers want to feel safe and secure when they enter a business. Workers want to feel safe, feel the same, and part of that safety comes from knowing who they are interacting with, with. When everyone is visible and unmasked, it fosters a sense of community and openness. Safety is indeed a two way street. As you said, it's crucial for law enforcement to maintain transparency, but it is equally important for every individual important to be held to the same standard, whether it's walking down the street, attending a protest or entering a business. When we can see each other's faces, we break down the barriers, reduce misunderstandings, and create a more welcoming environment for all. I encourage the council to consider that the proposed changes should advocate for the visibility of all individuals, not just those in positions of authority. By promoting a culture where everyone feels accountable and identifiable, we can enhance the safety and trust that are vital to our community. If criminals commit a crime wearing a mask and subsequent subsequently caught, they should receive an additional charge of violating the city code. Due to the extra work PPB puts in to identify them. I also feel that if you have PPB responsible for enforcing the city code, then please budget more money so that they can have the staffing to do so. Today, central precinct has one officer available to take calls, which is a danger to our public safety. In conclusion, let's create a Portland where all people are unmasked and visible, fostering a stronger, more connected community. I appreciate your commitment to these changes and your consideration of my perspective. Thank you.
128 Laura. You can unmute and begin your testimony.
129 Great. Thank you. I'm laura curry. I am here to talk about what I have heard. I appreciate the conversation. I appreciate that this is a conversation. I first of all agree. I would like the permit of the mcadams space for ice be revoked. I have also seen vests of ice agents with the word police on the back not identified as border patrol or or or other things. So this can be an impersonation, but it's this other other identification that I think is a problem. I agree that the vehicles should be marked. I know that I'm really talking more about ice in this situation. And so while we have had a conversation about the supremacy relationship and a representative from the city talking about how litigation would be difficult, I would like to see this be included in this conversation of unmasking all people that are be acting on behalf of any kind of a policing organization. I do believe that we need to, as a city, protect our citizens, protect our neighbors, our immigrant neighbors. I'd like to know what the what's the framework of the police protecting citizens when they are confronted by ice? What does that look like? Like when you talk about kidnaping. What? What is that? What is the line that's drawn? And I also want to know, is there a way to record who is in ice violating this for future litigations that I hope will come down the pipe? And I want to close by saying I have witnessed police, Portland police that have acted very well have been very helpful and very responsive. Thank you.
130 Thank you for your testimony.
131 Thank you. Up next we have joel spector, jack dickinson, annie fader. And. Elaine underwood.
132 Thank you all for being here. Please feel free to go ahead. Whoever's ready first.
133 I can start. My name for the record is jack dickinson. I'm going to focus most of my testimony on pitching one person in particular on this, but I broadly echo what people are saying today. I've testified about masks before, and my points have closely aligned with findings five, 13 and 14 in the draft document. And each of those points, I believe, are sufficient on their own as justification for this policy. All right. So now I'm going to turn to you, councilor Zimmerman, who is not here, but you are the person who I would really like to see on the right side of this vote. I was going to offer a few words of praise, but I'll skip that since you're not here, here's where I've been disappointed in you. I believe that you believe in the good interpretation of law enforcement, that these are brave individuals who are putting themselves at risk to protect and serve a community that is often unappreciative of the work that they are doing in that world. Though I would expect you to be the most vocal champion of policies like the one we are discussing today, the tactic of concealing identity is an affront to good law enforcement. It is important for all of us to not just be defenders of the institutions we value, but reformers as well. With the exception of the claimed $500,000 cost, the only way I see this policy damaging PPB is if PPB wants to behave like ice is behaving, and if the Portland police would like to behave like ice, then we should abolish them to. The actions of PPB over the last week have highlighted once again that we cannot assume they will uphold this good interpretation by default. As legislators, it is your responsibility to force the necessary improvements. I urge you to vote yes when this policy comes forward for a vote. Since I have a few seconds left, I'll just note some technicalities. I think in finding 11 there's a typo. I think a citizen and ice agents in the final sentence should be flipped. There are two items in the definition and some of language the around officer and PPB officer might need to be cleared up.
134 Thank you for your testimony. I don't know, I think joel was next.
135 Say again please.
136 Joel, you can begin your testimony.
137 Members of the city council, I'm joel spector. I live in district three. I'm here to chide you for your cowardice and failing to oppose the fascist thugs who are shooting our citizens in the streets, and will break down the doors of this chamber next year to murder you personally. Sameer bill merely requires the gestapo to show their faces. It doesn't require the PPB to take action. If they don't, the conduct of these thugs demonstrates their intention to destroy civic order as a pretext for declaring martial law. The chief of police of philadelphia has ordered her officers to arrest ice agents harassing her citizens. And here you are, cowering under your desks for fear of being labeled confrontative. Sameer proposal is barely better than nothing. We need a much stronger response. The vice president has declared that these goons have, quote, total immunity, end quote. We need to make it clear this is not allowed, that anyone claiming the label of police is a servant of the people, not their master. A more effective bill would make it a felony for anyone. Excuse me. A more effective bill would make it a felony for anyone to represent themselves as a police officer without having an affidavit on file at city hall, proving at least a year of police training, and would require the PPB to make arrests in all such cases. Councilors, you took office to serve the people of Portland. If you were not willing to perform that duty, please vacate that office so you can be replaced with someone who will thank you.
138 Thank you. Go right ahead.
139 And you can start.
140 My name is ann shea. I'm a resident of district four. I came in supporting the mask ban, but honestly, after the presentation, I feel pretty deflated. Just like with revoking the ice permit, it feels like we are constantly being strung along with things that are not effective. And I'm kind of at this point where, when will we have an honest conversation with elected officials about the state of this country? Councilor Kanal you have been one of the few members to be respectful and sincere, but in general, I'm angry because a lot of your colleagues have been dismissive towards the activists trying to revoke the ice permit, and we have a mayor that literally runs away from his constituents and refuses to take appointments. The mask ban and revoking the ice permit honestly should have been enforced months ago. It just feels like elected officials at all levels want us to make ourselves small so that trump won't pay attention to us. But as we see, the violence is escalating regardless of how we react. And if we don't fight back, at some point, they're going to continue to think they're untouchable. During. During normal times, your job is to help your communities grow and flourish. But for the last ten years, we have been under the threat of a fascist takeover. So I have no patience for elected officials who thought your job would be sitting back and opening bike lanes, or those of you who simply throw up your hands because your lawyers say, we can't win this by following laws that prevent us from doing what is morally right. Your job under this threat is to keep us safe. Instead, you have left us defenseless with a string of excuses from the second trump won the election, officials at city, state and federal levels should have been coordinated in planning for the worst case scenarios from project 2025 and the fact that they're copying hitler's playbook. This was an open book test, and my feeling of dread and anger comes from the fact that I don't think anybody has prepared anything. And here we are, at the brink of a civil war. Yes, we are outgunned. So where are our strategists? Where are our veterans? People who have worked with the fbi, cia, help your citizens. We need strategy, real solutions.
141 Thank you. Go right ahead.
142 My name is sheila ellen underwood. District two. Thank you for the opportunity to speak in service of persuading this body to continue moving forward with exploring this ordinance. Persuasion only works, though, if people are free. In 1950, kenneth burke wrote, persuasion involves choice will. It is directed to people only insofar as they are free. This is good to remember, he continues, in these days of dictatorship and near dictatorship, only insofar as people are potentially free must the speaker seek to persuade them. Many of us have not been feeling very free lately. It is hard to feel free when, as former fbi agent mike german said, masking has always been associated with police states and symbolizes the drift of law enforcement away from democratic controls. I have no illusions that we can negotiate with this federal administration. They know what they are doing. They know that masks create fear and that masks undermine any possibility of a free, trusting and equal encounter between the people and their government. And masks do nothing for the safety of officers masks by escalating fear in the people that encounter them, by dehumanizing the very agents that wear them, create situations where violence is much more likely to occur. And yet, I am here testifying before city council for the first time because I am so desperately trying to believe that through participation in the political process, through engaging in the practice of persuasion among free people, we can use any power we have to reject this administration's invitation to violence. City council, we desperately need to believe that there is something you can do to protect us in this moment.
143 Thank you.
144 Thank you. Next, we have devin ruiz, cy fujiwara, and ames and erica fuller. Devin, you can unmute and begin your testimony.
145 Thank you. Chairs canal and Novick and members of the committee. My name is devin ruiz. I live in district two and I'm a registered lobbyist for next up. We are a local, nonpartisan, nonprofit organization that began in 2002, and we work to amplify the voice and leadership of diverse young people to achieve a more just and equitable organ. We are horrified by the ongoing terror that ice agents have inflicted upon primarily immigrant communities, and we know that at minimum, there needs to be immediate action taken to bring increased transparency and accountability. Ice federal agents and law enforcement must be identifiable and accountable to portlanders. As such, we are in strong support of the right to know who's policing ordinance and urge you to finalize and pass this out of committee. Ice is currently functioning as a lawless agency with unchecked power in our city and across the us. In the same week that immigration enforcement agents shot two people in east Portland, I shot and killed 37 year old mother renee good in minneapolis. Federal agents have now shot at least 12 people since September, murdering at least three people, including silveiro viegas gonzalez in chicago and keith porter in la. At least three more people have died in other incidents involving ice since donald trump relaunched his mass deportation campaign. This does not align with Portland values, and we urge the council to take immediate action at minimum, and transparency and accountability are essential requirements. Right now, masked ice agents have no obligation to share their faith affiliation with law enforcement or identify with community members. This means that unmasked and unidentified individuals are able to kidnap people off the street, which we have seen happen time and time again. The right to know who's policing ordinance addresses this issue and affirms that portlanders have a right to know who ice agents are. As part of this policy, there should be no increases to Portland police bureau funding, clear accountability and enforcement process with PPB, and better defining of masking to ensure that good masking medical masking is not implicated now or down the line.
146 Thank you.
147 Thank you and apologies for the timer mistake there. Sai. You can unmute and begin your testimony.
148 Greetings. My name is sai fujiwara and I live in district three. The text and spirit of this draft ordinance reads to me like common sense, and I believe that they stand on their own merit, which which means that somebody else is bound to take issue with them. In the interest of open discussion, I would like to share the best argument I could find in favor of the use of masks by ice agents. It comes from robert surna, acting head of dallas ice field office. He says that they wear masks for their protection and that of their families, against doxing and harassment by members of the public in retaliation for simply enforcing the law. He incorrectly believes that we the people are the same kind of vicious, hate filled individuals that fill that agency once, who would separate children from their families and drag people from their homes and places of work. It's understandable that he would think that many people assume of others what is true of themselves. I don't believe he's correct, but for the sake of entertaining that viewpoint, I'd like to call out the fact that protest is an important component of democracy. We the people directly are the fourth branch of government. When the other three have failed, as they so clearly have on the federal level. If your agency is having legitimate security concerns, where you really do have to call in the national guard, and you really do have to protect your identities from the justified wrath of the public, and all you're doing is enforcing the law. That's how you tell that the law does not represent the will of the people. This ordinance, if it passes, may not be directly applicable to federal agents. However, it will guarantee a visible difference between our PPB officers and the ice agents currently occupying the city. And for those of us who might trust one over the other, it will be a help. Thank you. I see the rest of my time.
149 Erica, you can begin your testimony.
150 Hello, councilors. My name is erica fuller. I am a proud member of Portland dsa. I am the co-chair of the afro socialist caucus, and I am a proud former elected official in district one for centennial school district. Let's be honest, this ordinance just isn't about badges or face coverings. It's about stripping away the protections that allow state violence to hide in plain sight. The recent brian ODOT chat logs show us exactly who's been pulling the strings in Portland, wealthy donors and lobbyists who called elected officials of color racist and dehumanizing names beyond behind closed doors while posing as concerned citizens in public. That's not civic engagement. That's white supremacist manipulation. These people see the police not as a public service, but as their personal enforcers. They want law enforcement to be faceless, nameless, and unaccountable, because that's how you protect a system built on control and fear. The fact that we even are having this debate, whether officers should be identified while using force is ridiculous. If you're acting on behalf of the state, the community has every right to know who you are. Anything less is a cover up, literally and figuratively. This ordinance is a direct challenge to those who think they can govern this city from the shadows. Beyond encrypted chats and riot gear, if you're scared to show your face while exercising power, maybe you shouldn't be holding it. So the question is, are we protecting the old guard? Or are we ready to build a city where power is visible, accountable, and shared? We see what happens and we won't look away. I yield my time.
151 Thank you. Go ahead. And.
152 My name is ann ames and I live in district two. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. And thank you for crafting the legislation for the mask off and identification ordinance. Unbridled 24 over seven thuggery is taking place by federal agents on our streets. I've been a resident of Portland for 40 years and things have changed drastically. I believe the anonymity of these masqueraders allows them to enjoy their arbitrary and intentional use of violence towards our neighbors and our friends. My major concern is this I had to parse this down from three minutes to two. But my major concern is this when military style men and men and women in military style uniform currently worn by the feds, is worn with a mask that hides their identity, coupled with blatant demonstration of zero regard for our constitutional rights, it wreaks havoc on the norms of our perception of uniformed law enforcement. It shatters trust, and it conjures this amplified fear response that leads to escalation. What many of us learned through years of socialization. I believe, in a mostly democratic society, is when a person wears a mask to hide their identity. This they might just be up to no good. For example, your everyday bank robber, run of the mill thugs, rapists, murderers they wear masks. This is a natural paired association reinforced throughout our lives. This is a critical mask off moment for Portland. Our city has the opportunity to stand and do something to mitigate this escalation of violence. For all I know, these individuals are members of the proud boys and oath keepers, and they found their army funded by us, the us taxpayer, supported by their current regime in the white house. We won't know unless masks are off and these identical individuals can be identified. So please, council members, stay the course, get this ordinance written, and if it doesn't allow us to get their masks off, then we have to find another way.
153 Thank you. Diana, will you please call the next panel?
154 Yes, we have minh, Dan ocon, brian orndorf, lynn hanlon and. Sorry, rigoberto martinez.
155 I know we've got some people coming down, so please feel free to start when you're ready.
156 Thank you. My name is rigoberto martinez. District four I support the right to know who's policing ordinance. The recent killing of rené nicole good shows that immigration and customs enforcement are out of control. A bipartisan approach only allows more room for further damage. Due process will always be a constitutional foundation. But I have to ask what will become of Portland when these escalations are normalized beyond repair? We have succumbed to a destructive pattern that our history books have warned us about, and society, as we know, is struggling to respond and promptly deal with an unofficially federalized agency that undermines local governments and can test the way of life we have worked so hard to improve. While ice operates under the guise of law and order, we face a higher cost of living, cuts to essential support systems and blatant disregard for humanity and abuse of power stemming from unresolved trauma, lack of education and limited access to support and resources. A system that prioritizes capital rewards, avoiding accountability when wealth supersedes penalty. It is my philosophy that a budget is only as powerful as enforcement. Ice knows that their actions are unconstitutional, yet their agenda continues to play out because they uphold dehumanizing policies and face very little consequence. Why is it wrong to respond with resistance against what many define as domestic terrorism? The system of oppression will continue to work as designed as long as profit wins over principle. Meaningful change needs to happen. But the progressive ideals that shape this country are met with hostility and blind contempt. For as long as loyal citizens are arrested for demonstrating their rights, innocent people are disappeared, killed or left for dead, and the political representatives turn the other cheek. Fascism proves itself over democracy, for they are united and us divided. Thank you.
157 Thank you, brian lynn or rigoberto.
158 Min Dan or lynn.
159 Sorry I flipped it around.
160 Yeah that's okay. Okay. Up next we have edith gillis, chris olson, megan bruhn, and kip silverman.
161 I'm edith gillis. Thank you. Please vote yes on this proposed ordinance and make sure it promptly becomes law. And also prepare and speedily pass another ordinance that specifies exactly where on the uniform and gear, what size of white letters and numbers on black are to be attached with velcro or such. Warning carried by all members and contractors of the Portland police bureau. So the last name identification number of that specific individual is clearly visible from all directions and matched easily to a free, accessible website attached to their full legal name, title and position, agency or employer short id number that's matched to their badge number and an unimpeded official photo of their face. Anyone can buy a cop costume. It just takes one week and not that much money to buy, show, make, and implement these patches. It is a felony to impersonate a law enforcement officer as so many pedophiles, kidnapers, traffickers, and rapists do. My two and a half year old daughter and seven and a half year old son were in the northeast precinct. Homicide detective kidnaped to be sold into prostitution for drug money. No one stopped the kidnaper because they thought she was authorized. Cops in Oregon killed over 250 people in 14 years. That we know of. Ppb has a policy, history, and practice of refusing to obey civilian government for 156 years, I'm victim of repeated criminal violence by PPB, and I've witnessed PPB repeatedly refused to protect portlanders from violence from mass strangers committing crimes the last few months. Stop them. Next. Also, make it a law that any individual or robot operating within the city of Portland limits must have such visible id they are not to be trusted, lawful and authorized law enforcement and anyone disobeying them cannot be prosecuted, plus, any seizure evidence, testimony, arrests or transport by them is invalid in a court of law. And those impersonators or other criminals not wearing that clarification all around their body and gear can and will be arrested by Portland police for the crimes prosecuted, any civilian or not. When officials identify did that same speeding, terrorism, assault, battery, vandalism, theft, kidnaping, trafficking, rape, extortion. Murder.
162 Oh.
163 Thank you. Go right ahead.
164 Hello. My name is doctor megan bruin, and I'm a professor of social psychology. Today I'm speaking on behalf of myself and not my institution. As a social psychologist, I wanted to share some established findings in my field. In particular, I want to speak to the idea of deindividuation. When people are in groups, they focus less on their own morals and personal standards, and more likely to follow the group's norms, which can lead people to engage in actions that do not align with their personal views or societal norms. Deindividuation and the immediate social environment powerfully shapes what feels right or acceptable in that moment. We know from decades of research that anonymity increases deindividuation hide in hiding faces, having missing identifying information make people feel less personally seen. Reduced identifiability also lowers felt accountability to outsiders. In this case, that would be the public. When you don't feel individually visible, you're less likely to pause and ask whether a behavior reflects your values or your responsibilities. Deindividuation does not automatically lead to harm. However, if a group's norms leans towards aggression or doing whatever it takes to make an arrest. Deindividuation can lead people to engage in really extreme behaviors. That's why this matters. Officers carry lethal weapons and have the authority of the state if they're operating in conditions that heighten anonymity with covered faces and hidden badges, psychology research suggests that they're more likely to follow the group's immediate impulses and less likely to feel personally accountable to civilians. The public to you, even if that's not their intention. From my expertise, grounded in what we know from social psychology, from, again, decades of literature, it would be a huge mistake to reduce officers accountability to themselves and the public. I hear pbb that they say they are always visible and identifiable. I have not witnessed that. And so these are key parts of law enforcement roles. Be accountable to yourself and others. Thank you for your time.
165 Thank you. Please go ahead.
166 Yeah. Cheers. Canal Novick councilor Morillo Smith. Thank you for taking public testimony on this important ordinance. My name is chris olson and I'm a resident of district two. I'm also a member of the Portland chapter of the democratic socialists of America. But today I'm speaking on my own behalf. I've often had a lot to say about policing. When I ran for Portland city council in 2020 for police, accountability was one of my top priorities. But quite frankly, I'm exhausted. So I'm going to keep this short. And if I'm exhausted, I can't imagine how my bipoc siblings feel after their rights and safety have been trampled on time and time again in this nation. This committee must understand the importance of supporting the proposed ordinance to ensure justice and transparency. Therefore, I want to remind the committee and the rest of the council that it is your responsibility to protect the people of Portland. And that's all the people of Portland, no matter their race, religion, background or immigration status. The federal government is violating the constitution of the united states in a blatant attempt to circumvent due process and to to commit crimes against humanity by displacing our bipoc neighbors for no other reason than the fact that they are not white ice operations are not law enforcement. They continue the legacy of systemic racism and human rights violations that go back to the japanese internment camps of world war two and the genocide of our native American siblings. Recognizing the shared history should inspire all of us to act against systemic racism seen in these ice operations. White supremacy persists in this nation, in this state, in the city, and even within these council chambers, you are considering one of the most significant pieces of anti-racist legislation this body can pass. Any action that disrupts the white supremacist system that has operated since before this country's founding must be prioritized and supported. Thank you. Yield my time.
167 Thank you. Kip is online.
168 I am. Hi there. Let me get my screen up. Hello. Thank you for having me. My name is kip silverman. I use he him pronouns and I am a resident of district two. I'm entering my 28th year as Portland resident, and I am co-chair of the policy and reform subcommittee on the Portland committee on community engaged policing pccep. But speaking for myself presently, I fully support this ordinance as a baseline, and I highly recommend advancing this as quickly as possible. And I appreciate starting this discussion. The basic standard of being identifiable we are discussing must apply for anybody who has a pretense of authority to approach, question, detain, or use force against another human being. While I find the actions of ice and dhs and other agencies roaming our streets looking for people to terrify or disappear as deeply abhorrent. I believe that as a law enforcement officer, everyone should be accountable to the person they approach. That means knowing what their face looks like, what their name is, whom they represent, what their badge number is, and by what right they're claiming to be interacting with that person. Anything else is vigilantism. As discussed in our pccep meetings, our community has asked, and I agree, that determining PPB policies of when and how they might validate and protect anyone in Portland approached by unaccountable persons needs to happen. And I highly encourage not only this going forward, but also asking for those clarifications on policies as soon as possible. As we see this playing out in our streets daily. Thank you for your time and I'll yield the rest of my time.
169 Thank you. Diana, will you please call up the next panel?
170 Next. Next we have irina haas. Sammy ortoleva. Rory martos, and samuel. Muchas mujeres. Aldin.
171 So I just want to, as they're coming up, note and thank the staff for their flexibility. I know we've got ten folks left who signed up. Maybe not all of them are here. And so I appreciate the flexibility of the staff who support our meetings and letting us run a little bit over we. There is a possibility that someone may have to step out. I hope that everyone is gracious to them as we are running past time, and I don't know if any of the four of them are actually here. So if you would like to call the next.
172 Oh, samuel is online, I believe.
173 Please go ahead. Yeah.
174 Thank you. My name is samuel mutchler. I'm a resident in district four, and I'm testifying in support of the ordinance to prohibit face coverings and require identification for federal agents. Yeah, this ordinance is the bare minimum, and it is still necessary. We need to approve this ordinance and revoke the macadam ice center permits and do everything in our power to protect our community. Ac hughes and dc causey made it clear that they will give the feds the benefit of the doubt that they would see an armed and masked individual in an unmarked vehicle as a federal agent, not as a random stranger, even if they're actively engaging in violent acts, rather than somebody who needs to be confronted and their identity made clear. The PPB have guns, tasers, protective gear and badges, whereas our community members do not. And yet they still put their own officer's safety above the community they claim to serve. When they concern themselves with what the weight of extra paperwork might mean as their budgets continue to increase, our community experiences violations of basic human rights on a daily basis. If you believe their doubts that federal officers won't respect our fundamental human rights, and our only option is to comply with their orders, it's not. That's not our option. And I really hope you vote in support of this ordinance and continue to strive for justice. Yeah, I yield my time. Thank you.
175 Thank you. I see irina joined us online as well. Please feel free to unmute.
176 Hello and thank you. I'm a mother of Portland taxpayer and documentary filmmaker. It is urgent that the city of Portland require that any law enforcement, including ice agents, not wear a mask and carry proper identification. I have children, we live close to ice on macadam. We are not white. We are aware that ice is taking children, and we are more than aware that men pretending to be ice have committed crimes in several states. Cases cited by the fbi advisory span kidnaping, street crime and sexual violence. In brooklyn, new york, a man told a woman he was an immigration officer and directed her to a nearby stairwell where he punched her, tried to rape her and stole her phone. This is just one example. There are dozens more that even trump's fbi has had to make public. I do want to say this as a woman, I have always operated with the advice of experts in criminology, which is never get in a car with a stranger because what they do to you in private will be much worse than what they do to you on the street. From the day my children were old enough to walk in our neighborhood on their own, I instructed them to do the same. Ice or no ice, our methods of self-protection will not change. I will refuse to go anywhere with masked men. I will not get in the car with masked men. This will most likely result in a terrible situation, but I won't be taking chances. It's simply worse to think about this situation when it comes to children, mine or any others, and it's infuriating that our community has not only to be concerned about our children walking to the park on their own, because masked, unidentified men working for sociopaths are willing to grab people off the street to meet a quota, or because they're pretending to be law enforcement. Lastly, I'd like to say, as regards Portland police bureau, please know that if masked men stop me, I'm driving straight in my car directly to the Portland police station, where I'll be running inside. So they're going to have to deal. So Portland police bureau will have to deal with this, whether they support the mask ban or not. So an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It's not a matter of if this is going to happen in Portland, it's when someone's going to be stopped and they're not going to get out of the car. Thank you.
177 Thank you. Please go ahead.
178 Hello, my name is doctor sami ortoleva. I'm a queer Palestinian and I'm a member of Oregon for human rights coalition. Though I'm here today as an individual, I'm here to support the spirit of this ordinance with the understanding that it's still being revised. Why do I bother mentioning mentioning being Palestinian when this ordinance is about ice? Because ice was founded in the early 2000, a product of ongoing American islamophobia that is still being used to justify the ongoing genocide in gaza. Because ice is importing Israeli style tactics used against Palestinians and deploying them on Portland streets. Because this connection between ice and genocidal Israeli forces isn't hypothetical, the anti-defamation league, a pro genocide hate group masquerading as a civil rights group, took ice officials to Israel at least three times in recent years to teach them Israeli tactics. The adl also organizes a counterterrorism seminar twice a year in the united states that trains ice officials in Israeli tactics honed against Palestinians. The public records of these collaborations mysteriously ended in 2017 after Jewish voice for peace deadly exchange campaign highlighted this, but anyone with any understanding of the american-israeli relationship knows the collaboration surely did not. One of the core features of the American project is an institutionalized lack of accountability, from catastrophic, ongoing native genocide to slavery and its modern manifestations in the prison system, to the first federally legislated mass anti-immigrant insanity in the chinese exclusion act of 1882, to japanese internment in the 1940s, to the genocide in gaza, and the kidnaping of our friends and family on the streets over and over. We are told to move on that substantive reparations for victims or punishment for perpetrators are impossible. I urge you to strengthen one part of this legislation, crafting a policy to enter as many names of ice agents as possible into the public record. I do believe accountability will come. I see a change in public consciousness for the better. I have to believe it's possible, but it won't happen without the identities and names of those responsible for these horrors. Thank you.
179 Thank you. Diana, will you please call the next panel?
180 Yes. Next we have juniper, thomas, harrison jarrett, rachel goldman, and taylor long.
181 Hi. My name is juniper thomas. I've previously worked on the police accountability board in davis, california for three years. Our chief aim on that board was to hold police accountable to their actions and raise trust between the local community and law enforcement. The two go hand in hand. We tried to help the public feel like there was a real avenue for ensuring that their rights would be protected, and that there would be recourse if they weren't. It built trust and respect between the public and law enforcement. Based on the testimonies here, something that is desperately in need of now. But how can we build that trust in law enforcement when we can't verify if they are law enforcement or if we can't see their badge, let alone their face? Trust cannot occur when you can't verify the truth. Trust cannot occur if there is no way to identify and take action against bad actors in law enforcement, and trust cannot occur when the gunman forcing you out of your car won't show their face. This ordinance is different, but similar to intent in the police accountability board, it's an attempt to build trust. It's an attempt to help people feel like there's recourse if their rights are trampled, and it's an attempt to help people of the city feel that they have a government that wants to keep them safe. In my opinion, it's not really even the bare minimum required to do so, but it is a vital first step. Specifically talking about some things in the bill. There was issues with collective bargaining. It sounds like collective bargaining must be involved for any uniform requirements that involve disciplining. I don't think I've seen anything in here that this even involves disciplining, unless we're considered talking to supervisors as discipline supremacy clause. Federal supersedes state, supersedes local. I don't know if there are any federal or state laws that say that you're allowed to wear masks, unless those things mean that federal agents are immune to local laws. I'm not really for sure on that. Thank you.
182 Yes, my name is harrison jarrett. I don't represent any organizations or anything, but I would like to say I'm for like socialism and communism. I believe that the only way to truly end all of these atrocities is by a mass general strike, without any kind of constraints. As for this legislation, I would say that some of these concerns have already been addressed, but that many, many exceptions to this can be abused by ice and PPB. And I think there need to be more assurances that those won't be exploited by workers in these organizations. I think civilians should have some way of ensuring that a masked officer is legitimate, whether that be by contacting any organization, but that they should be able to secure that before having to comply with whatever person is claiming to be a federal agent or officer is trying to get them to do. Also, in the section where it says an investigation would take place, whether that be the PPB calling ice or taking the other steps, would that be fast enough to ensure that something illegal doesn't happen by the person claiming to be ice or a federal agency? There need to be some assurances that that could take place quick enough so that something illegal doesn't take place. Thank you. I see my time.
183 Thank you. Rachel.
184 I am a federal worker. I represent myself and not my agency. I am a resident of district three fed swear to protect the constitution. I take my oath to this country seriously. Unlike these thugs who may work for fascist president but ultimately threaten our democracy. Part of the duty of federal servants is to be accountable to the people that we serve. Here. We have to think about power dynamics. I work in a situation where there are power dynamics, and I strongly believe that those in power should be those that are the most accountable and most transparent. This particularly includes those armed in positions of power at local, state, and federal levels. Regardless of whether or not we believe federal law enforcement will adhere to this, it is still worth implementing because there are no instances in which allowing law enforcement to conceal their identities is in the best interest of the public, even if symbolic. The symbolism means something to our community, and this is the bare minimum. So my final question is this what is our role practically and symbolically in responding to federal agents acting unconstitutionally, I.e. Rounding up people without reasonable suspicion, without a warrant? I ask this of you all. I ask this of PPB. How do we respond when federal agencies invoke unconstitutional policies and practices, practices that are not founded on the interests and the values of the community? I urge you all to continue to work towards creative solutions, to move ice out of our state and ideally, wipe it out of existence. And I say this as a federal worker.
185 Thank you. Please go ahead.
186 I won't act as if this is a good afternoon. Therefore, I will simply state my name. For the record, my given name is taylor long and I come out today to speak on the negligence of the current administration and the lack of concrete action used by city hall, while our so-called representatives sit before us today, having dragged their feet on any action against the ice facility, or to do actual give out any consequences on the multiple land use violations at the ice facility and against the federal incursion of our civic rights as a whole? No, they sit in their chairs and claim that there is nothing to be done, that we must not take the bait. While our representatives passed the buck of responsibility down the line with no accountability or action actually conducted, they now placate the growing civic dissent and reactive legislation that should have been enacted months, if not years ago. They passed this mask mandate not for the safety of the populace or for the democracy they claim to uplift and uphold, but to save face and their own careers. While the populace is paying attention to bank in on civic heartbreak for their own gain, pass the mask ban. That's fine. But I will say this in simple terms as possible. In case you are not listening, revoke the ice permit or resign. We, the people of Portland and the people of Oregon as a whole, deserve representatives that will move proactively, that stand for individual citizens and not for capital gain, that will speak to all of their constituents. Instead of hiding in offices and refusing to respond to the hard questions, ignoring thousands of calls and emails from scared members of the community, from fathers and mothers and children who do not know if tonight will be the last night they see their loved ones to take accountability for the lack of action and the real deaths and terror that inaction has enabled in Portland and in this country at large. We the people, have made efforts to pry action from the greedy hands of those that claim to represent us. Following an investigation only initiated by numerous public complaints, the city of Portland issued a notice for the us immigration and customs enforcement ice facility.
187 Thank you for your testimony.
188 Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Next we have claire courtney, Loretta guzman, and it appears we also had lynn hanlon joined online, who we missed earlier.
189 So thank you for your patience, claire.
190 You can unmute yourself and begin your testimony. Oh, looks like claire dropped off so we can go to Loretta. You can begin.
191 Hi, my name is Loretta guzman. I was born and raised here in the city of Portland, and I am a small business owner. I'm not sure how the city law trumps the federal law in this, and this seems to be something to put a bigger wedge between our city and the federal. I can say it's been real, real for me for a very long time. Many of our young men are being shot, killed, paralyzed bodies washing up in the Willamette river. Where's the public safety? Where's the public outcry for this? Where's our accountability? All the lost lives. Too young, too soon, and no one is being held accountable. We have single mothers, children and families left behind to try and navigate their way through this trauma. But as victims need more accountability by our city, even after the smoke clears, the mother of the children are left with no fathers and are struggling to get through life with little to no support. Our city steady fails us. Our children are being swept in between the cracks and they are our future. Families are struggling. I see a picture of my nephew who was killed October 27th, 2024 as he walked out to his car. And there is a picture of him and two of his friends that is floating around. And in that photo, they're all deceased within a year. To this day, still no accountability. We need our public safety as it is a fundamental right to us. We do have a constitution that needs to be stood upon. You guys are public servants to us. You do serve us and I don't see it. I do not see it. I feel it every day I walk out of my house. Canal you're in my district. I see my dead nephew every single day I walk out and when I called 911, I got a recording and he died with me praying on him. We do not have public safety.
192 Lynn, you can unmute and begin your testimony.
193 Okay, I think I'm unmuted. We can hear you. Okay. So my name is lynn hanlon, and first I want to thank councilor Kanal for proposing the ordinance. It's a start. Ice and cpb officers are, as we all already know, detaining people without cause based on racial profiling or just they don't like what they're saying. They use excessive force. They saturate the neighborhood around ice with toxic waste, tear gas and pepper spray and just generally behave badly, worse even than the Portland police back during in 2020. That's bad. All while being virtually anonymous. We need our local police to actually pay attention to this. And for realsies, do their jobs. Be there to protect portlanders from masked armed thugs, ice or otherwise, and not turning a blind eye or worse, joining in and arresting protesters. Cully Portland police have not been doing a great job of this so far, and I think this ordinance could help to push that forward. And as far as the uniform and name tag thing, I mean, I don't understand why the name tags can't come first and the high price tag and it'll take a year and a half to two years. I kind of don't buy that. I mean, the name tags, I have a printer if you need it. It just it just shouldn't take that long. It's a scare tactic, a very common one for the Portland police that always say that, you know, certain things cost more than they really should. I'm familiar with budgets and things, and that's an excuse. I don't want to hear it. I do have a question. What if, after saturating the air with tear gas and the like, the ice officers then say that the air is so toxic that they have to wear face coverings? I think that would be reason for like, you know, having really visible name tags. I understand we can't force ice to do virtually anything, but same goes for Portland police. So yeah, we need we need big giant name tags and no face coverings. If you're choking on your own tear gas, well, I guess it would be isis tear gas, so never mind. Anyway. Thank you. And also revoke isis permit. It might help to end this crap, at least for here and for now. Thanks.
194 Okay.
195 That that completes testimony.
196 Thank you. And thank you to everyone for your patience and being here and staying through. We have a little time for for council conversation. I want to note that it might not look like we have quorum up here. Councilor Zimmerman is online for a bit here as well, and councilor Morillo had to step out, but I think councilor Smith will be coming back in a moment. So I'll pass the gavel over to councilor Novick to manage this.
197 I don't see anyone in the queue for final comments. Councilor councilor Kanal, is there anything that you'd like to say?
198 Yeah, just three things I wanted to say briefly. Councilor Morillo did ask me to to share that she's fully supportive of the mask. This is a quote that I'm fully supportive of. The mask ban will do whatever it takes to push this through the bureaucracy faster and quote, I just want to also note that I'm happy to work with all of my colleagues to show why I am not sharing all the legal concerns that have been raised. That doesn't mean the text is perfect, or that they are not concerns that need to be addressed. I'm saying that we are working on it and they're in progress state. And I also want to note, finally, that I left out something important in the presentation, and I'm fairly surprised at myself for leaving out, which is that the act of. The act of creating documentation is something that can assist with lawyers knowing where a person was and knowing how and when a person was taken by ice, even if the person is disengaged with because they are an ice officer, the act of documenting that they were at this place at this time, and potentially that they were engaged with this particular civilian at this moment, is something that is advantageous to the lawyers that represent immigrants and anyone that's being messed with, frankly, by ice. And I am I want to just note that that documentation is a very important part of what we're trying to achieve here as well. I can't respond to everything that's been stated. There's been a lot here. I want to just thank everyone, whether you are supportive, critical, whatever in between for coming out and sharing. I understand that for some people this will be too much or too little, and I get that. I hear you, I'm committed to continuing to listen. And the last thing I'll say, which is not just about this ordinance proposal, but about anything related to federal overreach, is if there's a place that you think I should be and you'd like me to be there, please email me and I'll be there. I want to see things with my own eyes. I do receive things. Your feedback and accounts of what people have observed and witnessed yourself and I do pass those along, including in these meetings, but also outside. But I do. I do want to indicate openly that I'm very happy to come out and see whatever it is that you think I should. Finally, I do want to thank the presenters for being here and your team in particular, and councilor Novick for helping chair this just in the interest of fairness. So thanks.
199 Thank you chair. I put myself in the queue partly to to say this, and this is in response to a couple of the testifiers. I think that one thing people in the community will want to know is not just what happens when somebody has no indication that they are a federal agent, but what happens when somebody who is demonstrably a federal agent is beating the hell out of portlanders? And that's something that I think we should have a public conversation with about the police, because they can intervene when it's my understanding when federal officers are acting outside their authority. And I think that we need to get some clarification about what outside their authority means. And if there are circumstances where we can expect the police to step in, that's not really relevant to this mask ban conversation. But I think it's something that people raise that I think we need to should have a separate conversation about. I am I do have reservations about passing a mask ban if we really can't enforce it against the feds, and if there's not real concerns about the Portland police running around masked, I do want to look at the incidents that councilor Kanal has of people saying they've called and the police haven't responded when there's no indication that somebody is a federal agent and hear what the what the police have to say about that. So that's going to be an ongoing conversation. Also, councilor Smith has introduced a resolution which I think is really interesting, which I expect will take up next time we meet. And seeing nobody else in the queue, I think that we can declare this meeting of the community and o councilor Kanal.
200 Real quick because it's at the bottom here. Our next meeting is Tuesday, January 27th. We're going to receive a presentation on human trafficking and prostitution. We're going to consider a nuisance property code change, which comes from councilor Novick. We have a council meeting tomorrow morning. It's at nine, not 930, which is the standard time 9 a.m. Tomorrow. And if you have anything you'd like to share councilor Kanal at Portland, Oregon.gov. Thanks.
201 And the meeting of the community and public safety committee is now adjourned.
202 Thanks.