The record · Transcript
Council Session — 2025-12-09
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Session summaryEditor-reviewed
The Portland City Council Community and Public Safety Committee met on Tuesday, December 9, 2025. After roll call and approval of prior minutes, the committee reviewed a resolution to appoint members to the Portland Street Response Committee, following an application and interview process that yielded a slate of candidate names; the number of applications, interviews, and appointees was described, though figures were stated inconsistently across the discussion. Nominees introduced themselves, described their district affiliations and relevant experience, and fielded a question regarding one nominee's affiliation with a community organization. No public testimony was submitted on this item, and a vote occurred on referring the appointments to full Council, with the outcome recorded in the vote ledger. The committee then considered a proposed ordinance and resolution to establish a City Data and Privacy Office, intended to centralize data governance, privacy standards, and oversight functions currently spread across bureaus. A presentation covered the office's proposed structure, budget implications, and timeline, followed by public testimony largely in support. Extended discussion addressed proposed amendments, questions about administrative buy-in, budget impact, and implementation timing. Multiple votes occurred on amendments and on referring the ordinance and resolution to full Council, with outcomes recorded in the vote ledger. The meeting adjourned with the next session scheduled for January 13.
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Procedural markers in this session
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0 Oh, there we go. Thank you.
1 Good afternoon. I call the meeting of the community and public safety committee to order. It is Tuesday, December 9th at 2:30 p.m. Before I begin, I should note that councilor Kanal and I have an agreement that I will share items that he's presenting, and he will share items that I'm presenting. And today we're each presenting items. We're going to bounce the gavel back and forth. Diana, can you please call the roll?
2 Good afternoon. Zimmerman. Smith here. Canal. Here. Morillo here. Novick here.
3 So in this meeting, the committee will consider a resolution to appoint Portland street response committee members and consider an ordinance and resolution on city data and privacy. Diana, could you please do we need to read item one the minutes thing. Do we need to like okay.
4 Yeah.
5 And I think item one.
6 Does christopher need to read the.
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7 Oh that statement of conduct I'm so sorry.
8 Welcome to the meeting of the community and public safety committee to testify before this committee in person or virtually. You must sign up in advance in the committee agenda at ww Portland council agenda slash community and public safety committee, or by calling 311. Information on engaging with the committee can be found at this link. Registration for virtual testimony closes one hour prior to the meeting. In person, testifiers must sign up before the agenda item is heard. Public testimony for today's items will be limited to two minutes. Your microphone will be muted when your time is over. The chair preserves order disruptive conduct such as shouting, refusing to conclude your testimony when your time is up or interrupting others testimony or committee deliberations will not be allowed. If you cause a disruption, a warning will be given. Further disruption will result in ejection from the meeting. Anyone who fails to leave once ejected is subject to arrest for trespass. Additionally, the committee may take a short recess and reconvene virtually. Your testimony should address the matter being considered. When testifying, state your name for the record. If you're a lobbyist, identify the organization you represent and virtual testifier should unmute themselves when the clerk calls your name. Thank you.
9 Thank you. Dana, could you please read the first item?
10 Item number one, October 7th to October 21st, 2025. Community and public safety committee minutes.
11 So the first item is the approval of the committee minutes for the meetings held in October. These minutes are available online as part of the meeting agenda. If there's no objection, the minutes will be approved by unanimous consent. Is there any objection? Nope. Hearing none, the minutes are approved. Diana, could you please read the second item?
12 Item two appoint members to the Portland street response committee.
13 Let's see. I'm sharing with councilor. Canal is introducing councilor Kanal. Could you please give a brief overview of the resolution in the committee?
14 Thank you. Co-chair Novick. I'll be joined by my chief of staff, lisa freeman, for this presentation. Colleagues, this is a resolution that will, if approved by council, formally appoint the members of the Portland street response committee. I'll just wait for the slides to get posted here. Great. All right, so as some context, on June 25th, 2025, city council adopted resolution 37709 support and expand Portland street response as a co-equal branch of the first responder system and establish the Portland street response committee. Next slide please. One of the provisions in that resolution created the psr committee, fulfilling a promise made several years ago to have community voice be a core part of the development of psr future. To complete the fulfillment of that promise, the committee needs to meet and advise the councils, the city's elected leadership and obviously appointing members comes first. Next slide please. As required by the resolution, the application which was developed collaboratively between council leadership, the mayor's office, office of civic life, public safety service area, was open for six weeks. The city received 85 applications, which is over six applications per open position. Many thanks to council officers, mayor's office, psr, friends of psr and other community based organizations who share the recruitment helped inform the public. This ensured that there were an abundance of qualified applicants to choose from. Next slide please. After the application closed, a five member committee consisting of psr staff council leadership community reviewer reviewed all 85 of the written applications. Recommended 29 to move forward to the interview phase, another five member committee consisting of psr staff, interested council offices and a community reviewer conducted interviews and recommended 15 candidates for appointment. I want to give a huge thanks to macky, spencer knowles, ella hutcherson, maria sipin, andre miller, owen and caroline pope, who you'll hear from in a moment, who gave a ton of time and effort to review applications, develop interview questions, and interview candidates on a short timeline so we could bring these appointments to council before the end of the year. I'm going to invite up caroline pope, who is staff at Portland street response and was a part of those selection processes, to speak to the selection process. Thanks for being here.
15 Yeah, thanks for having me again. My name is caroline. She her pronouns and I do community engagement for Portland street response. So we had 85 applications that were then split up with a group who reviewed them. This was all very fast. We reviewed the applications. Each of us picked 5 or 6 to then move on to the next process. And then we did the interviews. Our interviews were 20 minutes long. We were looking at a number of things one being lived, experience being really high on our list. So we wanted folks not just with lived experience of how houselessness, mental health, behavioral health, addiction recovery or adjacent experiences. To that, we wanted folks from different districts, of course, and we also wanted folks who had done their homework, who understood the program, who understood how it fits into the first response model, what mental health crisis is, what it can be, and really critical thinkers with the ability to present their views in a council setting and to, you know, bring in the voice of their community and their experience.
16 Thank you. That process allowed for the selection of 14 appointees named in the resolution. In order to achieve the broadly representative membership, the resolution required. And I want to be transparent because on the last slide, it said we had 15 people who were nominated and 14 community members who are appointed. The proposed membership includes four appointees each from districts two, three and four, and two appointees from district one. And the request for that, a little extra information and candidate pool from the interview committee allowed for that to be two people from district one, instead of potentially as few as one. And the reason that this happened is that only seven people from district one applied of the 85, which is in line with.
17 Those numbers. One more time, please.
18 Yeah, sure. The request was to restate those numbers. So 85 applicants, only seven of them were from district one. After going through this whole process, the final interview committee gave 15 names to and that allowed for ensuring that a district one that there were at least two people from district one, as opposed to potentially only one. And I think these applicant counts are in line with a broader citywide trend. The city as a whole has a lot of work to do to improve recruitment efforts in district one, and to ensure that there are enough district one residing applicants in the future. This should be a focus for future recruitments, not only for this committee, but all future ones. And that's how 14 came to be. The resolution also confirms mayor wilson's appointment of caroline pope to the committee as the psr staff representative. So that's how the overall membership of 15 is created. The resolution that established the psr committee also stated that final membership must include representation from people with lived experience with behavioral or mental health issues. There's a quote on the slide here based on what applicants were willing to voluntarily disclose. I'm proud to say that at least eight of the appointees have this critical experience that will help psr serve our communities better. Next slide please. Members will be appointed to terms beginning January 1st, 2026 and ending June 30th, 2026. Will now let these very impressive appointees nominees introduce themselves to you. I think, lisa, you'll be calling up the first group.
19 Yes. Thank you. We're going to welcome the first four nominees. So akila and laura, rod hull, Jamie kennel and emily likely can you join us up at the front?
20 As they're coming up? Just a quick format. Note we do have one video submission. Everyone else is either here in person or virtually, and we're giving each person about a minute. We'll hold the questions to. All of the applicants are able to give their intro.
21 Just a quick point, chair. If we could have them say which district they're representing when they give their testimony. Thank you.
22 Hi, my name is akilah bandura. I'm based in district four. So a little bit about me. I grew up in phoenix and I actually recently moved to Portland. In university I studied psychology and african American studies, and I have a robust background in research centered around improving health outcomes for marginalized communities. I'm interested in joining the psr committee because I volunteered as an emt and witnessed how police, emts, like myself and other first responders are not equipped with the skills needed to care for people experiencing mental health crises. Moving here and learning that Portland street response exists, and reading the initial findings gave me a lot of hope. And that all being said, I'm excited to serve on the psr committee to work toward making Portland a city that I'm now calling home more of a home for all people. Thank you.
23 Hello, I'm rod hull, and I'm honored to share my journey. For me, this opportunity represents a profound achievement. The majority of my life was spent in addiction, including 14 years living on the streets of Portland. On October 11th of 21, I experienced a life changing event that required more than a month in a hospital. During that time, I made the decision to change the trajectory of my life. With the support of some outreach workers, I began the path of recovery. Over the past four years, I have embraced empathy, compassion, and understanding while deepening my knowledge of addiction and recovery. One year into my recovery, I earned my certified recovery mentor credential and spent two years doing outreach work connecting individuals with vital services. Driven to expand my impact, I became a certified alcohol and drug counselor and worked with deflection clients in Clackamas county. My lived experience, combined with professional training, allows me to meet people where they are, offering both hope and practical pathways towards stability and self-sufficiency. I hope to bring all my experiences to the table to provide a better understanding of the struggles with addiction and homelessness. Thanks.
24 Thank you. And rodney, you live in district one, right?
25 I'm not sure.
26 East Portland.
27 Yeah yeah, yeah. East Portland. Yes.
28 Thank you. Go right ahead. Jamie.
29 My name is emily. Likely. I've lived in Portland since 2017. Born and raised in the pacific northwest in seattle. While I was completing my phd at Portland state university, I helped with the surveys that informed the initial development of Portland street response, and my advisor and I, greg townley, evaluated the program from 2021 to 2023. I'm now an assistant professor at Washington state university and still living and working in Portland and continuing my research on alternative first response community mental health, housing and homelessness. I'm honored to be nominated for the committee. I hope that my knowledge of the research on this topic, combined with, you know, my commitment to Portland as a resident in district one in Lents, will, you know, help support Portland street response, be the best it can be to, you know, support our community. Thank you.
30 Hi. Good morning or afternoon. I think first, it's honor to be a part of the committee. My name is Jamie kennel, part of district two. I've got a number of hats that I wear. Bear with me. I'm a paramedic, professor. I'm a director of health equity education at the wsu college of medicine, where I'm also currently serving as a regional dean of the Vancouver campus. I've lived in Portland for over a decade. I've worked in Portland and Multnomah county as a paramedic for amr, as well as a number of communities in Washington, and have seen firsthand the challenges of responding to communities with mental health and behavioral health emergencies, and many of the deficits that the current ems system is trying to work through and honored to be a part of the psr solution. I do think it's a it's a fantastic offering and service that will help the ems industry and help the community better respond to this particular challenge. Thank you.
31 Thank you. The next four nominees are beatrix lee, estelle loveless, robin matsumoto, and rebecca morgan. And estelle is joining us online.
32 Doctor lucky, which district were you?
33 She's also district one.
34 Thanks.
35 Just for the mic. She's also.
36 District one.
37 Good afternoon, committee chair and members. My name is beatrix lee. I was born in Portland, Oregon, and I was raised by immigrant advocates and by the internet. I currently work as the digital communications strategist at unite Oregon, a statewide advocacy and community organizing organization that works to advance and intercultural movement towards justice. I have a background in policy and organizing, working for various local legal organizations like Oregon justice resource center and metropolitan public defenders. I currently volunteer on the jade district steering committee, clear clinic, and national lawyers guild. I am personally passionate about community safety, alternative mobile service programs like Portland street response, and trauma informed, culturally responsive programs that meet the moment and serve our portlanders with dignity, skill, and compassion. As a person with lived experience with mental illness and neurodivergence, I see Portland street response as a critical service to our community. As a dedicated advocate that would like to see us divest in the carceral state and invest in life affirming, life saving services. I am a strong believer in the future and expansion of Portland street response.
38 Next, we'll go to estelle, who is online. Estelle, you can come off mute.
39 And beatrix is in district two.
40 So yeah, just ask people to respond to councilor Zimmerman's request that people name their district if you know it. Not all of us know when you give your presentation.
41 Hello, my name is estelle. I live in district two, northeast Portland, concordia area. I believe that's district two, and I grew up and born and raised in southeast Portland and northeast Portland. Eastmoreland albina, just a east side girl. I currently am a graduate student at Portland state university. I have a bachelor's degree in political science and a master's degree in emergency management and community resilience, and I'm currently earning a master's degree in criminal, criminal justice and criminology and also in the social work program. And I am. A. Not only a, you know, that male hair club for men. I don't know why I'm thinking about that, but I have lived experience and educational experience with mental health, mental health services. I have a and I'm just really passionate about psr, so I'm glad that it was able to hang in there and not only hang in there, but also be boosted by the community. And I'm really looking forward to having a voice and representing the community. So thank you very much.
42 Hello. My name is robin. Matsumoto and I use she they pronouns.
43 And I am in district four.
44 I am a queer person of color with lived experience of substance use, unstable housing, domestic violence, and justice involvement. I moved to Portland in January from Lane county, where I worked closely with cahoots, the model on which psr is based. I'm a credentialed community health worker and certified recovery mentor, and I'm currently a street outreach and housing navigation specialist with Multnomah county. I have been a direct service provider and team lead for nearly five years. Focusing on individuals who use drugs, have severe and persistent mental illness and complex chronic health conditions, and are experiencing houselessness. It's an honor to be nominated for this committee, and I greatly look forward to bringing my lived and professional experience to Portland street response in the community they serve.
45 Good afternoon councilors, chair and members of the committee. My name is rebecca morgan. I am a survivor, a single parent and a community advocate in tualatin on the homelands of the atfalati people of the kalapuya, whose descendants are now represented by the confederated tribes of grand ronde. I have experience, experienced homelessness four times with my children, including living in a tent and in a shelter, before moving to tualatin through rapid rehousing in 2022. With that stability, I became a community emergency response team volunteer, worked with local non-profits, and built a licensed home daycare serving low income families and children with extra support needs. I also completed a two year term on idea committee this past October. Last December of 2024, I left a 20 year abusive relationship, and since then, my children and I have been navigating post-separation abuse, criminal court and structural problems in our apartment that forced me to pause my daycare and rely on supports again. This fall, I completed a 45 hour mediation training with Clackamas county resolution services toward court connected work that centers on de-escalation, nervous system awareness, communication, and asking clear, honest questions instead of rushing to blame. I live with ptsd, rooted in early adversity and long term coercive abuse, and have close family members who are unhoused and living with addiction and serious mental illness. History means I pay close attention to how stress and safety show up in the body, in behavior, and in stories we tell about people in crisis. We know that when someone feels threatened, the nervous system shifts into survival mode, and language, memory and decision making become harder to access. While agitation and shutdown become much more likely. In those moments. The first job is not persuasion, it is reducing threat so that problem solving can actually happen. I am honored to be nominated for a psr committee. On this committee. I hope to bring my lived experience, a steady presence and thoughtful questions to help psr reduce harm, build trust, and stay accountable to the people most impacted by crises. Thank you so much for the honor of being here today.
46 Thank you. The next five nominees are marcelo pacheco, jill rips, kaya sand, and chris thompson, and sasha vine, and chris and sasha are joining us online. Okay.
47 Go ahead. Go ahead. Sorry. So.
48 Welcome. And again, if you could tell us what district you're from, councilor Zimmerman would appreciate it.
49 Maybe I'll get there, I promise.
50 Hi, my name is marcelo pacheco. I am in district two and I have lived in Portland for six years, having moved from northern nevada. When I first moved up here, I worked as a peer wellness specialist, assisting people from long term mental health care, going into everyday life with adls, and teaching how to navigate health care. And I currently work for central city concern as a healthcare navigator and community health worker. I hope to bring my lived experience as somebody who is diagnosed with schizoaffective in 2019 and my lived experience navigating through the processes here in Portland to be able to assist with this committee, and I'm looking forward to serving on the committee to help make sure that it's a it's an available resource in the future for our community. Thank you.
51 Good afternoon. I'm kaia sand, district two, and I am so happy to be among these extraordinary nominees. And I dedicate this next leg of my commitment to Portland street response to jim mcrae, who deeply wanted this program to happen, describing how when his brain itches, what he needs is a calm and soothing voice, not a badge and a gun. And to michael garner, who walked with me for miles carrying his belongings to testify at the very first budget hearing in April 2019 to create Portland street response. They both died recently and too early, as is so common on the streets, and this is the foundation of my passion for this work. I directed street roots for seven years, and I am now writing a book on this subject. I'm incredibly passionate about it, and I want to see realize it nationwide. So I've been shadowing programs in albuquerque, durham, atlanta, dayton, seattle, fairbanks, alaska, and rochester, new york. And my interest is in really helping our program here connect the nationwide movement in terms of knowledge and really awareness of what it is that we can learn from each other through research and through building something much bigger than any one community can do. So our time is now.
52 Hi, I am with district four. My name is jill rips. I moved here from colorado in 2021 and this hands down was the best decision I have ever made. It changed my life in so many ways for me to explain all of them. It would take a lot longer than the 60s I'm allotted to introduce myself to you all. What I offer to the committee is lived experience with homelessness and mental health issues. I recently completed an internship to be a community health worker. I also volunteer with par team, which is Portland animal welfare. If you're not familiar with them. They support the houseless and low income with needs for their pets. They. I also am a community advisor on the community advisory committee, with them educating the public on what they offer to them. The other organization I volunteer with is pop, which is Portland people's outreach program, who do harm reduction. I am honored to be a part of the Portland street response committee. I look forward to giving my input and observations to help improve what already is a much needed service in Portland. Thank you.
53 Chris thompson is joining us online.
54 Hi, jill.
55 Hello. My name is chris thompson. I use he him pronouns. I'm a Portland district three resident. I received my master's degree in social work from Portland state university.
56 Mr. Thompson, could you speak up a bit, please?
57 Oh, yeah. Yeah, sorry about that. So I use he him pronouns. I'm a Portland or Portland district three resident. I received my master's degree in social work from Portland state university. I've worked in the crisis intervention field for approximately ten years in different settings. I currently work at vibrant emotional health, the administrator for the 988 suicide and crisis lifeline. In my role, I partner with crisis centers nationwide on implementing crisis intervention best practices for the 988 chat, text and video phone programs. Working at 988, I see the desperate need for compassionate and effective in-person mental health support. Every day, we have folks reach out to 988 for help, with many at high risk for suicide. I'm interested in serving on this committee because I see the wide gap in resources for those at high risk, and I am passionate about making a Portland a better place for all. Thank you.
58 And sasha vine is also joining online.
59 Hi, my name is sasha vine. I use she her pronouns. I believe I'm a member of district three. I've been working in homeless services for about a decade now, and I also bring lived experience in both addiction and housing instability to my work. I currently work as a program planner for supportive housing services funding in Clackamas county, and I'm really excited to support this committee and support the work Portland street response is doing. I think it's a really vital and life saving resource, and I'm just really excited to see the program sustain itself and continue growing.
60 And the last community member nominee is mia. Mia couldn't make it today, but sent in a video introduction.
61 Hi, my name is mia. I use she her pronouns. I am born and raised in Portland and I bring experience working and being in community with people experiencing homelessness and mental health crisis. To this role I have worked in crisis settings, including as an on call with mental health responder with Portland street response. In the very beginning for over a decade. I'm a mental health counselor, completed my degree in 2023, and have been working on licensure. I currently work for providence's adult intensive outpatient program. But I've worked in shelter care, sheltering for, well, about a decade. I'm passionate about being part of a group process that strengthens and uplifts diverse voices and perspectives habitually left out of public discourse. I hope to bring camaraderie, teamwork, and values driven focus to this new role. Cheers.
62 So.
63 So. Additionally, and caroline was the mayor's designee to the selection process and also the mayor's nominee to the the 15th spot, which is a psr staff member who sits on the committee. This resolution also would confirm that appointment. Caroline, would you like to introduce yourself again in that context?
64 Thanks all again. I'm caroline and I do community engagement and outreach for psr. Very excited about this. I see that psr was really formed because of community input, and I'm very hopeful that as we grow and expand, to go back and have that community input and that integrity in our growth, this was actually part of my initial job description when I was hired three years ago, and it was not appropriate at that time to have a committee like this. It would have been very performative then, and I'm hoping at this point that it can be really something that can grow and we can really use this input as we expand. Thanks.
65 Thanks. So finally and we're getting the slide up, I want to thank all the people who helped make the recruitment and selection process work in some way, from helping circulate the recruitment to being a part of the application development, interview question development, application review or interviews process. Thank you. That concludes the presentation.
66 Good.
67 Thank you all.
68 Do we have anybody signed up for testimony?
69 No one signed up.
70 All right. Any colleagues any discussion. Council member.
71 Appreciation to the chairs on this. And putting together this group, I want to just commend everybody who stepped up. I appreciate that deeply. And also thank you for indulging my district question. As we get into this system. I do appreciate being able to put that to it, particularly for the district four. I look forward to getting to know you more a little bit and meeting chairs and colleagues. I there is one I would I would like to ask a question of one of the appointees that there were some information shared that I did not see in this biography, but I need to address it. Miss ripes.
72 Want me to.
73 Come and I'm I'm defer to the chairs. How you'd like to go through that?
74 Yes. Would you like to come up?
75 Can I stand? Is that okay?
76 Whatever you're most comfortable with works.
77 For me.
78 Thanks, ma'am. You mentioned your involvement with pop. That's a pretty difficult organization in my district. And it's maybe the only organization in my district who refuses to work with the rest of us. I'd like to better understand what your involvement with pop is before I can be supportive of your sitting this committee. Can you describe that a little bit?
79 Yes.
80 So it's pretty recent that I got involved with them. I how it happened was I brought stuff to donate to one of their outreach programs. Somebody approached me there. And actually, that's how I got my internship to get my community health work or certificate, because they had a grant and they talked to me about it. So I did that with them, and I did some I would do some outreach on the weekends with them, but I'm not I don't I don't really do a whole lot with them. I can tell you what they do. Do you know?
81 Oh, I know what they do, ma'am. Okay. So that's the problem.
82 You know, I that's kind of how it evolved. I was going to volunteer, but then I did the grant and I got what I kind of wanted and needed at the time. And I don't do too much with them as, as we speak. Obviously I have an issue with my leg, so it kind of puts me out of commission. But there have been some enlightening things that have occurred with them recently that I'm not fond of, and I have stepped back and I've let them know that I'm not happy.
83 Would you consider yourself one of the organizing leaders of the group?
84 By no means.
85 Okay.
86 Not even close. And nor would I want to.
87 Thank you for that. I appreciate you allowing me to ask that. I think given your giving your answer to my direct questions, and I recognize that there's an uncomfortableness about that.
88 Yeah. No, I usually don't tell people because I know the stigma that comes with it, but it is what it is.
89 Yeah, well, I appreciate it. I think that if I considered you to be a leader of it, I probably would reject your appointment today. I think that sometimes the work is important, but I think there are some groups who are actually counterproductive to us growing and being healthier. And I think pop is one of them.
90 I hear.
91 You, so thanks for being honest there, miss ripes. I look forward to voting to accept you into this.
92 Thank you, thank you. Appreciate it.
93 Miss grapes, another affiliation question.
94 Yeah.
95 What was it you said that you're involved with the poor team?
96 Yeah.
97 I love the poor team. Great organization. So thank you.
98 Passionate,
99 Passionate I was just there Sunday for santa paws.
100 Awesome. Thank you. You're welcome.
101 Is that it? Anybody else? No. Okay. All right.
102 Any further discussion? Councilor Kanal.
103 Thank you. Chair Novick speaking now in personal capacity as a member of the committee, I just want to say thank you. I, we will probably have these conversations at council as well, but I think it's a good opportunity now to say that many of you have such experience in other systems or in psr past. I think there's an opportunity here to make psr something that serves the needs of the entire community and shapes the future. The one thing that I have been personally invested in with relation to psr, if you look at the history, there was a time where Portland street response was looked at as an example. Certainly not always. There were lessons that could be learned by other jurisdictions for good and for bad. Right? And that's how being one of the first out the gate works. And there are groups there, cities that model themselves after psr, when it was a pilot. And those pilots in those cities are now further advanced than Portland is. And I want us to get back to a place where other cities are looking at Portland again, not just on psr, of course, on many other issues, but where they're looking at us and learning from us because we're willing to take a hard look at each and every policy and make it better and challenge some of the the ways that things have been done before, not just within psr, but more broadly. And I think that bringing in community voice, in particular, a highly qualified group of folks with with very different experiences, allows us to do that. So I want to first thank all 85 people who applied. I will say there are many great people who were not selected for this, and we may reach out to you in the future for your help on this. As the committee evolves and continues through its work, and I hope that you'll take that call if and when it comes, but especially the folks who are here before us today, and I look forward to voting yes on your nominations here, as well as appointment of council.
104 Councilor. Is that your hand again?
105 Yeah. Thanks, chair. I forgot one thing I did notice in the in the materials you all provided that all of your recommended appointees are residents of Portland, and I recognize that it's not a requirement, but it is appreciated. I value that I would ask to caroline and then to the co-chairs that. If it becomes in the future during the term, if a member becomes a non resident of Portland, that we at least be informed so we can discuss that. But thank you for that. And I do think it's really important that portlanders advise on Portland issues. So thanks for that.
106 Thank you. And there were nine applicants who did not live well, eight that we know did not live in the city limits, and one who did not provide an address we could track the location of. So who are all great too. But yeah, thanks.
107 Any further discussion? In that case, would anybody like to move the appointments to the Portland street response committee to be sent to the full council with a recommendation to be adopted.
108 So moved.
109 Second councilor Smith moves councilor Morillo seconds to move the recommendation, recommend the appointment of these folks to the full council. Is there any discussion? Will the clerk please call the roll?
110 Zimmerman I Smith. I know. I Morillo.
111 Thank you all so much for your service.
112 I Novick.
113 Thank you so much.
114 I with five eyes the motion to refer the resolution document number 2025479 to city council with a recommendation to be adopted, has passed.
115 All right. The clerk read the next two items together, and I will now pass the gavel to councilor Kanal.
116 Item three add code to establish a city data and privacy office. Item four direct the city administrator to establish a city data and privacy office to advance privacy protections. Steward data assets and minimize risks for data brokers. Uncontrolled sharing of personal information and secondary data use.
117 Thank you colleagues. As you can see, we have two items before us. They're both co-sponsored by co-chair Novick and councilor Morillo. I'm not sure who's leading the presentation, but I will now pass it to you to introduce the items.
118 Councilor Morillo can expect. Both of us want to say some words and introduction. The city gathers a whole mess of data and technology relating to data advances really quickly. And with that, the danger of exposing people's personal data to either corporate actors or nefarious federal government actors. And we and this actually is an idea of a data office, which bubbled up from city staff involved in data and their position. And ours is that rather than every bureau making its own decisions about how to manage data, what its contracts relating to data look like, there should be an office whose job it is to worry about that stuff, and to provide standards for relating to data collection, data storage, and especially making sure that we take every step we can to make sure that people's personal data is not misused. So that's the genesis of the proposal we have today. Councilor Morillo want to add to that.
119 In the words of councilor Loretta Smith, ditto, ditto, ditto to all of that. Yeah, that's completely accurate. We're very excited to bring this proposal together. I think we've seen that there's a lot of federal overreach, a lot of surveillance happening on protesters, immigrants. And if you believe in American civil liberties and freedoms, then you should be very interested in data protection because it's the new frontier of that. This proposal would definitely just streamline the process of protecting people's data at the city of Portland. And I also want to emphasize that this is something that was brought forward to us from frontline staff who have worked on data privacy at the city for years and years, and they actually wanted this proposal and it wasn't brought forward earlier on. So we are resurrecting it and making sure that it is going to come to fruition now. So really excited to hear from our presenters today who can give more details on it, and from the public who I know signed up to testify. Thank you.
120 And our initial presenters are zack ward of my office and susie royster of councilor Morillo office. We've been joined at the hip on this thing for the past like two months.
121 Welcome to you both. Please introduce yourself for the record when you start.
122 Yeah. For the record, I am zack ward, councilor Novick policy aide.
123 Susie councilor Morillo policy advisor.
124 Yeah. And today we will be presenting this sort of resolution and ordinance combo to create a city data and privacy office within the city. I think we have a presentation. Is it up?
125 Looks like we're getting that screen shared here. Bear with us. On does does everyone have does the right person have the file or.
126 Is someone up here sharing their screen, or.
127 Are you able to go to the item that should be attached as an exhibit perhaps?
128 Okay, yeah. We don't usually share from up here. If you have a copy. Otherwise I can last minute pull it up.
129 Okay.
130 I'm not situated to run through.
131 I will go ahead. Give me one second.
132 Thank you for pinch hitting on that, christopher. Appreciate it. And these slides, just for those who might be paying attention at home, are attached to the item on the city website to both of the items actually because they're posted separately, the ordinance and the resolution.
133 I like this because it's adding to the suspense.
134 Yes. They're up. Go for it.
135 Thank you. Sorry about that. I guess. Next slide. Next slide. One more. Yeah. So like I said we'll be presenting on this resolution and ordinance combo to create a new city data data and privacy office within the city. So right now technology is really changing faster than any city councilor is equipped to deal with. And new advances in tech and ai systems especially, are pushing the boundaries of privacy and data security every day. And that's not even considering the normal city functions like staff turnover, updated terms and conditions that nobody ever likes to read, and other changes that can put privacy at risk. Next slide. So we are seeing this play out across the country in cities like austin. They're struggling to keep up with rapidly evolving technology. And this has not only been exacerbated by the recent examples of federal overreach. As ice taps into municipal surveillance feeds to target immigrants for immigration raids or new tech like the ai driven floc. Cameras start to come online, which has become a very big issue across the country. So the issue of privacy and data security has become so serious that it doesn't take a single email or even a single ordinance to fix it. We really do need an entire office to fix this issue. Next slide. So this proposal to create a new city data and privacy office is really designed to accomplish three things for the city. The first is to improve city data governance, which I will kind of talk more about in the next few slides. The second is really to develop a unified privacy framework across the city, coming out of the commissioner Form of government, data and privacy rules were really handled at the bureau level. So it was kind of a mishmash of different levels of privacy and a lot of variance across the city. So having the centralized office will give us the opportunity to really unify city policy and make sure there's no gaps anywhere. And then finally, and in many ways, most importantly, this is about improving public trust and accountability. So establishing this office is really designed to put up safeguards for privacy. That can be especially important for communities that have typically been over surveilled by communities of color, the LGBTQ community and immigrants, especially these days. Next slide. So starting off kind of how can city data be exploited? There's a lot of different ways that this can happen. But the most obvious is misuse by external actors. So as we've already seen with the federal government's overreach into accessing local data for ice enforcement, even in sanctuary cities, that's become a very severe problem, but also and more nefariously sometimes data brokers and private firms can also potentially access and later misuse city data, even when there are stricter controls in place. Aggregation and over collection are also a pretty big issue with municipal governments. Often, cities can collect or keep more data than is truly necessary, potentially putting portlanders at risk. And also sometimes publicly available data can pose can release sensitive information unknowingly when being scraped. And we've actually seen some recent examples of this at the city. So it's important to cover. And then finally, vendors can pose a pretty severe risk to privacy through deals and contracts that we've made through the city, vendors can often repurpose city data for things like product development or ai system training, both of which prevent present risks. And vendors can also interact with law enforcement platforms in ways that can lead to over surveillance and more privacy risks. Next. Next slide. So how is data governance or what is data governance designed to do? In many ways it's kind of the solution to those problems. And in our view, better data governance can led by a new city data and privacy office would first define what the city collects and why, to help prevent those risks of overcollection or over retention. Data governance can reduce inconsistencies and prevent unintentionally harmful privacy practices from occurring. It can help put up guardrails on aggregation that can help prevent portlanders lives, routines, and behavior patterns from being tracked unnecessarily or dangerously. Better governance can help close any potential gaps or flaws in vendors contracts to ensure city data is kept safe, and governance can create accountability and enforcement measures. When mistakes do happen and help prevent them in the future. Next slide. And how will the centralized the city data and privacy offices help with this? There are a number of issues that it can help with, but first off, it just will provide that citywide set of standards and centralized oversight. So currently we have privacy staff located all throughout the city that are already doing this really important work. And setting these standards in a centralized place will just allow for things to run more smoothly, create unified standards, and ensure that we have really strong policies to protect data privacy and equity. In addition, it can propose data driven collection solutions. So often, data can be collected through portland's various surveillance systems, and that data is often kept for longer than it should be. So creating these clear boundaries for what and how long something should be retained before it is deleted is really crucial to preventing over surveillance and pattern of life data collection. And finally, the office will help ensure better public trust and accountability. So just by having an office designed to do this, by conducting more privacy reviews, incorporating community feedback and just auditing to ensure compliance, this office can create trust where it's most needed. Next slide. And kind of just looking at a timeline for this proposal's development. So like the councilor said, this actually came from city staff to begin with. This was a full proposal, was created and brought forward in 2024 that was unfortunately left on the cutting room floor during the budget process. So in may of this year, we got ahold of it and have been updating it ever since to really help it tackle the moment with the increasing federal overreach and some of the other major issues that are coming on, and just to make it better fit our current form of government. Back in August, we shared this with the executive and the dcas to get their feedback, make sure that that was really incorporated, and we've been working on that all this fall. And that kind of brings us to today, where we're presenting it to the committee and hopefully the full council. It'll be passed and we'll have a new transition plan in place sometime this spring.
136 Next slide.
137 So just kind of a quick outline of what the city data and privacy office would look like. It would be housed within city operations and report to that dca just to ensure that it has access to the entire city and can connect and collaborate with all of the bureaus and offices that it needs to. It would be led by a new position, which would be the chief data officer. That would just kind of help to guide this office forward. And it's important work. And finally, it would have rulemaking authority to help establish those unified guidelines across the city just to get everybody on the same page and moving in the same direction on data and privacy issues. Next slide. And I think another thing to really focus on is that this office would have a lot of collaborators across the city. Data privacy touches so many different features of municipal work, cities work. And so there's going to be a lot of people that it's going to need to be talking to. Obviously, bts bureau of technology services, as the the hosts of all of our technology and it platforms, but also people like procurement and the city attorney when we're talking about contract language, those sorts of things. Office of equity and human rights will also be a key collaborator, just to make sure that the data that's being captured should actually be captured and is taking equity into consideration. Next slide. One more. And kind of finally the budget. So as it stands with this proposal, we're not really predicting that it's going to have any significant budget impacts. And the reason for that is because all of the staff that we've sort of identified and worked on the original proposal are already working at the city. And this is really more of a realignment in the way that the city has been going recently. So the idea is to just bring all of the people who are already doing this really important work, but in separate offices into the same place, so that they can collaborate, they can do this work together, and they can get everybody on the same page.
138 So councilor Smith has a question.
139 Yes. So you're going to bring different people who are currently doing this data work in this privacy work in other places, all in one. Have you talked to the dca in that area? Are they are they supportive of this. And and why was it on the cutting room floor last year?
140 To your first question, we have spoken with the dcas that are involved with this. A lot of the staff are currently housed in bts, so donnie has been supportive of this sort of transition. And then as to why it was left on the cutting room floor, I honestly can't say it wasn't something that was presented to council. It wasn't a decision package, it just wasn't funded.
141 So okay, so is this going to take the place of like last week? I don't know if you were listening. We we had to approve the investment policy for the treasurer. And I asked some questions about money being stolen from the city electronically through cyber. Some of our cybersecurity issues. It was 6.7 million that was stolen last April. This past April it was since it's since been recovered. So would you all be taking over those? Because under our investment policy, the treasurer is responsible for that. And I'd like to look in other places to make sure that this is not taken. These people are not taking the place of people who are already in our system doing this kind of work. You just have a few people and I I'm a little concerned. I like the idea of of an office, but I don't know that you're going to be able to get all these cybersecurity people under one roof and doing one thing.
142 Yes, I'm happy to answer that question again. Susie royster councilor Morillo policy advisor. So I would make a distinction between what you just spoke to, which is, again, cyber security. As you said, people who are typically hands on keyboard, individuals who conduct penetration testing or they remediate hacks, things like that, and data governance analysts who are more focused on thinking about what we collect in terms of data, how we collect it, where we store it, things of that nature.
143 Okay, okay.
144 Thank you.
145 Thank you. Please feel free to continue. Yeah.
146 I actually think this is my last slide. So we can move on to any questions that people might have.
147 Well then the timing was great. Are there any other we do have public testimony on this. So before we get to that are there any technical questions beyond what councilor Smith has already asked?
148 I have a lot, but I'd rather get to testimony.
149 Yeah, great. Councilor Novick.
150 Mr. Chair, there are going to be we're going to propose a couple of small amendments. Should we sort of put those on the table before public testimony?
151 Yeah, we can wait to formally move them until after. But please do feel free to lay them out.
152 Okay. So an exhibit a, which is the only exhibit to the resolution, there's going to be a proposed amendment which addresses some timing issues. For one thing, the word established is using in the document. We didn't define what that means. So in under items a one through four city data and privacy office we're replacing, we will have the following language we'll delete. The written proposal shall be submitted to council within 60 days of the passage of this resolution, and replace that with prior to submitting the plan to council or relevant committee. A city. Because the the that what one a says is that council directs the city administrator to develop a proposal to transition staff and functions related to governments and privacy into the city data and privacy office, and explains what the proposal, the issues the proposal will touch on. What we'd add here is prior to submitting the plan to council or relevant committee, a city staff member should be appointed and or hired as the chief data officer on an interim or ongoing basis. The written proposal shall be submitted to council or a relevant committee within 60 days of passage of this resolution or by March 31st, 2025, whichever is later. And then it says, for purposes of timelines described in this resolution, the office shall be considered established after the written proposal is heard by council or relevant committee, and that relates to the use of the word established later in the document. Another amendment, which I apologize, is not is not written down that I just kind of made up recently is under item two, sensitive data inventory and risk and risk mapping. Right now item seven is propose a set of penalties that can be applied to vendors that have failed to comply with city data standards or review city data illegally. And as an example of that. I would like to add in. In parentheses after penalties propose a set of penalties parentheses which could include standard liquidated damages clauses for inclusion in contracts, because I think that that's generally the more effective way, most effective way to deal with vendors as far as penalties are concerned. Have something in the contract that says that if you break, break the rules, here's the penalty that that you're assessed. So those are the two those are the two amendments that we have in mind.
153 Thank you. I'm going to go to counselor Zimmerman for a question, but just really quickly, and I believe this is a scrivener's error. It's going to be March 31st, 2026. In that first read document. And I think councilor Novick also read. Within 60 days of the passage of this ordinance or this document.
154 That's right. That's not in the document. Right.
155 So this just flagging that for for those following along. Yes. Councilor Zimmerman.
156 All right.
157 I love this.
158 But now you've really confused me, Steve. Okay. You said exhibit a, which is this is what's posted. But then you started reading off of this document, and now I don't know what we're just amending. And I'd like to understand what was handed to us versus what's posted.
159 Maybe that I'm confused. I understanding is that the city, the document that we're amending, is described in the resolution as exhibit a. Zach, can you help me out here?
160 Yeah. When we posted this online, we just split the the whereases and exhibit a is the therefore section. So I believe it's at the beginning of that.
161 Okay.
162 Just just clarify.
163 It's my first day as a counselor. But that's not something I'm understanding okay.
164 So there there are two documents here. There's an ordinance that has exhibit a, which is the document I believe was in your right hand that has chapter 3.39 as the starting point of it. And then there's a resolution which is item four on today's agenda, which also has an exhibit a, which is the document that begins roman numeral one, city data and privacy office, and I believe councilor Novick. You can confirm this, but you're trying to amend the latter.
165 That is correct. Thanks for helping to clarify. Councilor Kanal.
166 Okay.
167 So it's it's the attachment to the resolution.
168 And they are both exhibit a to their respective documents.
169 I recommend that we screen share so that we can all look at the same document at the same time. I think that would help everybody in the world.
170 Because I'm yeah, I'm clicking on all the links you're talking about and not seeing any of this, this document.
171 The amendment from Novick was just posted online in item number four.
172 Would you like me to.
173 What is its name?
174 It's labeled amendment proposal Novick one.
175 Okay, we have screen share.
176 Okay. Thank you.
177 Okay.
178 Any other technical questions.
179 Because. We have. Two okay. Got it. Yeah.
180 Councilor Smith is that a legacy hand.
181 Yes.
182 Okay. Great. Just to be clear, if you're testifying, you're able to testify on either the resolution or the ordinance, including the relevant exhibits as well as the amendments that have been floated, but not yet formally proposed by councilor Novick. Diana, are there folks to sign up for public testimony?
183 Yes, we have people signed up for public testimony. I'll call three at a time. You have two minutes to speak. First up, we have shawn patrick, followed by jesse dearing, and then kate kay. Shawn is online. You are welcome to unmute and begin your testimony.
184 Thank you. Thank you. Chairperson Novick, chairperson canal and members of the committee. My name is shawn patrick. I use he him pronouns and I'm here representing pdx privacy, a local nonprofit organization committed to the concept of privacy as a fundamental human right. I'm here today to ask you to pass the city data and privacy privacy ordinance 3.39 and the privacy and data protection resolution out of committee. Please refer to our letter cosigned by don't shoot pdx that was submitted into testimony for a detailed view of our position, but please consider the following in overview. Despite the city's many commitments to data privacy, the data of portlanders is often handled independently by each city bureau, making it a secondary concern and making it completely impossible to say with certainty how the city is living up to those commitments. These commitments are critical, however, and must be prioritized because the personal data portlanders generate just living their lives can now reveal a huge amount about us. Thanks to the growing field of ai analysis, data can now be compiled into a detailed picture of who we are and how we live. It can be used to create inferences about the causes we are likely to support, or the policies we might resist. This puts our futures and the futures of our children at risk, because we don't know how this administration or future administrations might ultimately use this information, but once it is extracted, it can persist forever. We already know that black lives matter protesters have been surveilled and watched simply for exercising their first amendment rights. What other behaviors and data is being extracted from our black and brown communities that might put them at risk in the future? They already bear the brunt of overpolicing and rampant surveillance, and these portlanders deserve to know. Shouldn't our immigrant communities be able to trust the sanctuary values that the city has committed to, to know that they are actually being supported and not circumvented by data brokers that snatch up information from bureaus that are underequipped to identify or manage that threat. That's why establishing this office, understanding data flows and minimizing data collection is so important. We must create a city data and privacy office that is well staffed and well funded, so that we can track how our data is being compiled and with whom it is being shared. Please pass this legislation out of committee as a first step toward ensuring a safe and free future for all portlanders.
185 Thank you. Please go ahead.
186 Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is jesse deering. I am in the st. Johns neighborhood, district two, and I would like to thank you. Councilors Morillo and councilor Novick for introducing this ordinance. And thank you, committee chairs and committee for hearing me. I work in tech and I'm an advocate for security and privacy. And I want to ask you all to support the city data privacy ordinance and 3.39 and the privacy data protection resolution. The reason is many companies are collecting information about us all the time, and they're selling it to data brokers. They're allowed to do so without the consent of the individual who owns the data, who the information is being collected on. We can always exercise our rights to revoke that consent to use that data, but we're never able to grant that right for them to take it in the first place. So this puts individuals already at a disadvantage with regards to managing their own privacy. Take flock, for example, since it's kind of in the hot seat and in the news, flock engages with cities like Portland and others around the country to get governments to pay for the installation of their cameras, and then lease these automated license plate cameras under the guise of improving police outcomes. However, the data shows that the outcomes are not quite as simple as one click to one. Case solved. As garrett langley, the ceo of flock, would have you believe. All the while, flock and companies like it will turn around and then sell our data to the data brokers. So they're double dipping at everybody's expense. And we as individuals have limited recourse. This data is subsequently used by anyone who pays for it, including the department of homeland security, namely ice. And it impacts our vulnerable communities who ice is terrorizing to this day. And there's little that they can do to rein back that data. A city data and privacy office in Portland would allow the city to ensure consistent application of systems to improve city processes and responsible application of technology without compromising individual privacy. And it would be a significant line of defense against predatory data brokers. Thank you.
187 Thank you. Please go ahead, miss k.
188 Hi, committee members, my name is kate k, I'm an independent researcher and journalist living in district two in north Portland. These are my personal comments. They do not reflect my employer in any way. I have conducted and published in-depth research and analysis of Portland city government use of multiple algorithmic, automated, and surveillance tech systems. This personal work is intended to inform people about real world use of these systems, including in relation to data and privacy considerations. Budget constraints may make efforts addressing data seem esoteric or intangible, but especially in a digitized and automated world. Data is us. Data gathering and use affects all of us. It is not a partizan issue. Portland has made strides toward increasing transparency and accountability around data and tech use. However, gaps and disconnects remain. In my own research, it has been difficult to keep track of information about city procurement and policy procedures and reviews related to data centric tech, and there are disconnects between well-meaning data governance and community engagement efforts, and actual tech procurement and policy. Any city today needs regularly updated and comprehensive city wide data governance and privacy policies guiding data collection, acquisition, use, management and access, as well as procurement of data centric tech and policy making related to these systems. We would all benefit from a public facing hub for information about data and data centric tech related activities and documentation, including upcoming public comment and review opportunities, establishment of a city data and privacy office could help the city achieve a more consolidated, comprehensive, and efficient approach to data governance and policy implementation. I have also submitted additional comments. Thank you.
189 Thank you to our testifiers. Diana, will you please call us.
190 Next up? Sorry, sorry I jumped on that. Next up jeff landale, followed by jonas akers and then alison morris.
191 Thank you. Please go ahead jeff.
192 Hi my name is jeff landale. Thank you so much to the committee for holding this hearing. And for whomever is running the committee zoome for allowing me to testify remotely and dryly as well. I'm a district three resident calling in from south tabor neighborhood, where I live, to ask the committee to support the passage of the city data and privacy ordinance, as well as the privacy and data protection resolution. Before moving to Portland about two years ago. I worked on the east coast for approximately 15 years on technology, policy and privacy at various nonprofit and academic institutions. And as evidence of that, the committee's discussion about what amendment was amending, which resolution and ordinance did make me weirdly nostalgic for the decade I spent in dc. I think the ordinance and resolution under discussion today are not only good for portlanders privacy, but it's also just good governance as well, centralizing the expertise necessary to manage portland's data collection, storage and dissemination means city agencies can rely on an office that's familiar with the requirements and limitations, and reading the ordinance and resolution combo. There's a lot to like in the proposed city data and privacy office, but since my time short, I just want to focus on the privacy impact assessments. Some of the research that I've been involved in, looking at implementation of similar assessments, and other cities and states around the country have found that when they're done within individual agencies rather than by a centralized, dedicated agency, they're often bypassed through boilerplate language or rubber stamped with the words. There is no privacy impact of this program, even when there plainly is successful implementation of privacy. Impact assessments in places like san francisco have been done by agencies similar to the proposed city data and privacy office. I think this proposed resolution and ordinance would both protect portlanders privacy, and would also make the offices and agencies of the city of Portland run more smoothly and effectively. I'm very excited to see Portland taking the lead on data privacy and governance, and I'm grateful to the committee for taking the time to hear from me and other portlanders regarding this.
193 Thank you. Please go ahead.
194 Thank you. Chairs Novick and canal. My name is jonas akers. I'm a cybersecurity professional out in alloa. Please don't hold that against me. We live in an age where cities deploy mass surveillance technology to address short term needs, like deterring petty crimes or catching people with warrants. As a result, the daily activities of ordinary people are monitored by the for profit vendors that cities turn to for these capabilities. In so doing, we have constructed a many tentacled demon that penetrates into the most intimate places of our lives to gobble up information. No one knows where all it reaches or what it truly does. But we do know this in the digital age, neither death nor taxes are as certain as data disclosures. Sooner or later, data passes into the hands of people with very different motives than those who collected it. Disclosure comes in many forms hackers, corporate acquisitions, resale, government coercion, foreign or domestic. Oftentimes by accident, people mix up a document and upload the wrong thing. As long as data exists, we can't ever fully control who gets it or what they will do when they have it. All we can do is limit what we collect in the first place to the minimum that is truly needed, and ensure we destroy what is still under our control when its legitimate purpose is served. Such a thing requires the dedicated attention of capable people who aren't distracted by the crisis of the week. That's why we need an office to specialize in this, and we need that office to have teeth for all the bad actors we know about today. And there are many, and their crimes are terrible. We can't even begin to imagine what is waiting for us down the road. The stasi would drool over the surveillance capabilities we have already adopted, and the more years we let this fester, the more terrifying the consequences will become. Good intentions will not make us safe. You would not amass vast amounts of deadly toxic waste without oversight. This is no different. Please support data privacy ordinance 339 and the privacy and data protection resolution. Thank you.
195 Thank you. I believe allison is online.
196 Yes.
197 Thank you. Chairperson Novick and chairperson canal and members of the committee. My name is allison morris. I use she her pronouns and I work for a digital rights nonprofit. And I'm a resident of district four. I'm here today to ask you to support city data and privacy ordinance 3.39 and the privacy and data protection resolution, creating a single office to address data management and privacy means that there will be a single entity with ultimate accountability for portlanders. Data privacy when the city chooses to collect or use data, we should require powerful community oversight and transparency, and this office would enable and streamline such oversight. Additionally, it would create a single entity with experts that can set well informed standards for the city without each bureau having to take this on for themselves. I will admit that I believe Portland should collect as little data as possible in conducting city business. Data that is never collected, can never be misused or stolen. Ice cannot steal it to target and terrorize our neighbors. This administration or future cannot subpoena it to surveil protesters and law enforcement from anti-choice states cannot access it to stalk women seeking reproductive health care. There is no way to opt out of the collection of our data anymore. You cannot simply log off the internet or stop using a smartphone. Walking into a store may mean you're subject to facial recognition software and walk. And driving down the street subjects you to automated license plate readers. If we cannot opt out out of the technology being used on us, the city has a responsibility to make sure that nefarious actors cannot use this data against us. As technology evolves, it becomes easier for data brokers and ai to analyze and predict the most intimate or constitutionally protected aspects of our lives. I come before you today to ask if the city thoughtfully protect portlanders rights and civil liberties by establishing this city data and privacy office. Thank you.
198 Thank you. Diana, will you please call the next panel?
199 Up next, we have mariana garcia medina, kip silverman, and river shoal.
200 River. If you'd like to get started while our in-person folks come up.
201 I was counting on that to be able to set up my camera in a way that's not the least flattering, but no worries. Okay. Yes. Hi, my name is river shoal. I do not have the fancy credentials or honestly, I'm a bit of a tech noob. I've become kind of technophobic as these years have. Come on, I want to thank the councilors for this opportunity to testify. What I want to highlight is yes, I absolutely support both of these measures and I think that we need this because of the fact that when different departments and agencies are left to choose, oversee privacy and their missions, often what comes into effect is that the original goals of those departments are sacrificed, sacrificed privacy to achieve their initial ends. For example, police departments use flock cameras despite their invasion of privacy. They put in justifications. There have been, you know, even cases of police departments using it to stalk ex wives and girlfriends and potential partners. This goes beyond. So we need an agency whose dedication is to privacy, not to our safety, not to our transportation, not to our education, but just to this massive amount of data that the city is collecting. This is important beyond words because so many of us are vulnerable. I don't have a chance to opt out of any of this as the previous previous testimony stated, I can't just move into a forest. I have to live here in district one so that I can work and live and have a family. My kids are here and they have never had a moment without surveillance. I am asking begging you guys to put this into place to protect not just ourselves now, but our future. We deserve the ability to have private lives. Thank you.
202 Thanks. Go ahead.
203 Go ahead.
204 Oh, hi.
205 My name is kip silverman. My pronouns are he, him, and I am here representing myself. Today I want to speak in support of the creation of the city data and privacy office and suggested be made urgent. I'm really excited about the centralized approach and have a yes and fervent support of this effort. In late 2016 early 2017, I worked as a senior technical strategist for an elected official and spent four months doing a deep dive into understanding the city's technical environment, information platforms and other various aspects of how the bureau stored, accessed and shared data. And as expected, things were messy, existing in a highly siloed and rather chaotic bureau management system led to nearly every bureau having multiple independent systems with not a ton of governance or interoperability. During this time. Ordinance referenced in this proposal on the open data policy, I had helped with some of the language and to include data normalization and standardization make it easier to consolidate systems and secure information, while also making information more accessible. But there were some also deeply concerning issues that came to my attention that I'm not at liberty to discuss in public, but would be happy to discuss in private. I saw the 2017 ordinance as a first step forward, but I do not believe it had the impact I had hoped. I believe this effort will help address those concerns, plus all the privacy ones. The various systems of bureaus have implemented over the years, and the lack of interoperability and disparate levels of integrity and security are also huge risks that not even good governance model might be able to address. I fully support the creation of this office now, and I believe it's long overdue and I appreciate councilors Morillo and Novick for championing it. Please move this forward to council and I would make an emergency ordinance all. Honestly, it's really important. Thank you.
206 And that concludes testimony.
207 Thank you. Colleagues will now move into discussion. Those amendments are not yet formally moved, but could be. Or you can discuss the underlying ordinance or resolution or both. Councilor Zimmerman is that a legacy hand?
208 Yes.
209 Okay.
210 Unless I'm the only one.
211 Councilor Smith okay.
212 Thank you. I have a question and I didn't see I don't know who I'm talking to. Could. Yes. Thank you. Will, will this data also include the data that are on computers that we dispose of every few years? I know at Multnomah county we changed our computers and we actually have free geek to clean our hard drives. So are you all entering into this kind of making sure that our data is not I don't know how we dispose of our computers here, but I would be really concerned about how some of that data is on on the hard drives.
213 Yeah. So I can speak generally to this. I'm not familiar with that particular process at the county level. But I can say as a general matter, data governance, among many other things, is concerned with data retention. So how are we retaining our data? Is it beyond the deadlines and retention limits that we currently have in policies? Do we even have a retention policy in some contexts? So this I think would naturally fall into that. Looking at our assets across the city. So this is again a citywide enterprise wide office. So looking at our assets and understanding, you know, where there might be vulnerabilities like the one you just articulated.
214 And since you don't you have bts. And so I don't want to just assume that bts is going to look at the data on our computers. There's it's not called out specifically, you know, gives.
215 Councilor Smith may answer you. Yeah. The point of this resolution, you know, bts is fantastic. They do really great work. But an issue that we have at the city is just that data privacy issues and staff are not centralized in one space. So you'll have different bureaus that are coming up with their own policies. Per bureau. There's no uniform standard by which we handle data at the city. So the issue that you're raising is something that this data privacy office would be able to look into. These are this is exactly the type of space that we want to create to answer those questions, because we don't really have a centralized place to do that right now.
216 I would.
217 But I would generally if I had a question about my computers, I would call bts. That would be the first place that I would call. But I'm just trying to understand, is the policy going to be over? You know, and saying, how do you dispose of your computers? This is the right way to do it. Is that where that information is going to lie?
218 Yeah, that's a great question. So this is something that we've touched on in other contexts as well. But these are related but not overlapping areas of work. So bts is going to be focused a lot on hardware. So they're going to be focused on the actual hardware that you have. If you have a computer issue, you would in fact call bts. But if we're talking more broadly about retention policy, that is something that this office would work on in concert with bts. So there's a lot of collaboration, as zach mentioned during the presentation. But in terms of them, actually, as we talked about before, hands on keyboards, cybersecurity work, that's going to be a sub part of bts. This office is more of a policy strategic.
219 And so I'm curious, these people that you're taking from these different departments, what are they doing right now? This is a whole new scope of work and workload. How will they be able to do what they're currently doing?
220 Yes. So we would actually maintain and this is again completely consistent with the original staff driven proposal that we've referred to at various points already. But we would maintain that it's actually an almost identical body of work. So currently within bts. So bts planning and sustainability, there's a data services team that is doing this exact work. They're doing the work of data governance. But one of the underlying foundational premises of this proposal is that they're not doing this work in a place that is perfectly situated for the citywide nature of the work, or owing to the citywide nature of the work.
221 And you're trying to bring them under one roof.
222 Exactly.
223 Is that what you're trying to do? Are some of these people working at home right now?
224 I could not say.
225 I bet they are. If they're doing this kind of work.
226 I have to the extent that I've engaged with them, it has only been in person.
227 Well, you're going to have a hard time getting these folks to come to work. But anyway. Okay. Thank you.
228 Thank you, councilor Smith. Councilor Zimmerman.
229 I'm laughing a little because councilor Smith always takes it to a new direction. Okay, first, I love this. I didn't know you guys were working on this. I think this is great. And so I preface that because I do have a lot of questions and a lot of noodling, and I think it's all for positive reasons, but I'm recognizing the time. But I'm just going to do it until someone calls me out of the room. So. First, I guess I have been noodling on the ordinance, which for me is quite straightforward. There's only one area that I. I will probably propose an amendment for, but I'm trying to understand your intent, as the authors, between the ordinance and the resolution, the resolution is much more prescriptive about the work that will be done. I'll say in the in the very interim in the next period, if you will, less than 365 days. Can you, can you just kind of articulate why why these two documents and what your thoughts are given that maybe I'm saying my preference was the more broad ordinance, which kind of shows what's going to be established. But this is kind of saying how the saying in the army is like skin the cat, don't tell me how to skin the cat. It sounds like the resolution is telling us how to skin it to the administration.
230 And for these, I'm going to let whoever jump in first on this, but feel free to follow each other as well.
231 I think that's a fair characterization, actually, and a lot of it is how many things will what will happen, how fast and in what process. And we've had a lot of engagement with the executive on this. And in fact, the amendment that I first mentioned is the product of discussions with the with the executive that happened in the last like two hours. So we've been so we don't want to have a sort of open ended that we have. There will be this office and maybe it'll be set up sometime in the next six years. We also wanted to have realistic deadlines. So that's exactly what we've been going back and forth with the executive over for the for the past weeks.
232 Okay. It looks to me like it is an intent to establish it, but then this resolution gives you a report to provide a a funding pathway for our next budget season. Does that seem reasonable?
233 I don't know if it's sort of a structural pathway which sort of incorporates budget. And again, we don't expect there to be significant budget impacts. But basically we want this to be set up before and sort of part of the city before we conclude the next budget or as we conclude the next budget.
234 Got it. I have I do have a lot of question marks in the resolution about is five months feasible? Is eight months feasible? Where I see those those listed a lot. You mentioned councilor in your reading of the amendment, something about number seven and the and the penalties. But I was so lost in the sauce, I didn't collect what you had actually said. Or is this as it's written just the amendment.
235 That is the that is one amendment. The penalties thing is just a language that I'm adding that's unrelated to the timeline.
236 Do we have.
237 That you actually, we actually don't have it have it written. Okay. Actually spencer is trying to write it up as we speak. I'll keep my.
238 But thanks. I just knew I missed something on seven. I'll keep my eyes open for that. The right now I'm mostly in resolution and then I'll get back to the ordinance. So. Oh, the I appreciate and I want to know a little bit more why in the resolution you're talking about the automatic license plate readers. Because this is something I think is really important for the office of or the, you know, cdo it's going to be called. But it's but you've called out this one specific thing in the resolution, and I'm just curious what it is we're trying to solve with with this. And it's c one transparency oversight community protection c one. What are we trying to do here versus all the other probably 25 broad categories of data that we're trying to protect.
239 If I can speak to this, you know, I think a lot of why this policy, the inspiration that came for this policy, has to do with how isis surveilling our communities and especially our immigrant communities. Of course, it's not the only reason. Data privacy is something that benefits all people, regardless of citizenship status. But this is something that has been uniquely used to target protesters, to target immigrants, and to target different marginalized people. Create patterns of life on people's lives. And we have seen it expand across a lot of different cities because of some of our procurement and contracting policies. We've seen in different cities that, frankly, police bureaus have been able to create contracts without having to go to their city councils and things like that. And I'm not saying anything about our police bureau, but it's something that we need to make sure that we're taking a look at. And it's a it's a specific issue that's hitting a specific moment in time. So the goal of the resolution is to give a bit more specific direction about the the challenges that we are currently facing and the ordinances there to establish the work of the office.
240 Okay.
241 Not cutting you off, just wanted to flag for you, councilor and for everyone that the amendment is now in writing the number seven one online. Please feel free to continue though.
242 Thank you. I think the weakest paragraph of your resolution, by the way, and I and I, I think it should be removed is number three or excuse me c three the office of community engagement with the office of this and doing that shall direct I. I'm not. Frankly this is too important to put in an office that I think we're still figuring out what their role is, and I'm not there yet. So I'm being pointed and that's because I'm not there yet. So shall direct is very serious language in our world. And so I wouldn't want this to be kneecapped by our use of things like shall direct because that means someone else can't. So I just offer that up, because I do think this is an important part, but this entire movement should not rest on whether or not one office is functional or not. So I think three would be with the intent is probably achievable without without being so specific. Number four resolution 37608. What is that referring to? I thought maybe it was one of our documents, but can someone point me with a compass in the right direction on that one?
243 I think I need to phone a friend. Okay. That's okay. Zach.
244 I missed the number. Could you.
245 Repeat in c for surveillance technology inventory reviewed, codified and resolution 3637 608.
246 Yeah, that is a resolution that was passed, I believe, in 2021 that started the the practice of doing a surveillance technology inventory. So it's basically a long list of all of the different surveillance technologies that we have in the city. Okay. So you can find that it is still there. So this is referencing that and pushing us to update it and then use it for other purposes.
247 Okay. Stain in the realm of resolution for a little bit. My next questions are.
248 Can I pause you for a moment. Yeah. So when you have certain critiques of certain lines, are you going to propose amendments to change the language like for the for the directs shall direct outreach efforts? Or are you just saying it's going to be a no unless those changes?
249 I'd like to make some changes. But what I'm trying to sense, like I just got out of a committee where we just pushed something through because of time. I'm trying to sense from the author's like, do we have time to make changes? Or are you a dead set? We must vote today moment on this, because I think the point of our committees was to dive into topics. I think this is a great topic to dive into, but I can't sense from you all what your urgency is. I'd like to spend some time on it and and put together something that goes forth. But what I don't have today on both of these is a city administrator's assessment of the impact of like, who's reporting? It's going to sit in city ops. These are things that I think will make this really strong, and I will caveat that or preface it. I did say that the ordinance for me is easier because it's so broad, but this is the how we're going to skin the cat document, and I'd like to know from them how we're going to do it.
250 We may have different, different perspectives on this. I think that this is an issue that requires urgency because data privacy we've already made, we're already bringing amendments to help staff establish it, and we're slowing it down, frankly, more than I think it needs to. So I would say if there is language that you can live with, like shall direct community outreach, is that really going to make you not want an entire data privacy office?
251 You know what? Councilor as funny as you think my points are, the point is I'm saying I have experience with that office specifically, who is incapable of doing the thing you have said in this document. So I know that you don't like spending a lot of time in these committees to do this, but I'm saying I'm trying to be as incredibly supportive as I can. Yeah, but you have this tendency to not like the questions that we ask or the words that we use, but we're trying to be there.
252 You asked me if I wanted. You asked me a question. I'm answering your question. I think that this should be moved more quickly. I do think that this city council is more pedantic than I have ever seen any other legislative body be. I think you're asking good questions, and I think we're taking time to answer them. You asked me how I wanted to move through this, and I'm answering councilor Novick may have a different answer for you. I would say that we do need some direction here in the resolution about the work that we are asking them to do, and we have worked extensively with the dcas and the staff to ensure that this is carried out in full. So this shouldn't be a surprise to the administration about what is being asked or what we are directing. We've been working on this for months, but yes, I think.
253 Is there a city administrator's report on this? Impact, how they're going to do it? Is there any you said you've worked with them? Is there a city administrator's report on the impacts of this resolution, save for the ordinance, because you're saying urgency, but you also have timelines in here that say, March 8th months, etc. So it's not like today, if we pass this tomorrow, we shut down our data systems and ice takes off their cameras. I'm trying to be realistic. I think the eight months is realistic and this is important. I don't think that having an argument about the timeline today, I don't want I don't want the public. I don't want members of the public to think that. Because if we pass it today, tomorrow, something changes. This is about getting it right, because I think that what you all have proposed could be one of the one of the things other cities adopt. In our light, this is how good this is. And I would like to take the time to do it as right as we can be.
254 I would say that other cities actually already have systems like this. We're actually behind. So. But sure, we can have further discussions about this. That's fine. I don't know if councilor Novick wants to add anything.
255 I mean, I think that again with the timeline discussion is when we've been having with with the executive and the amendment we proposed today is based on our most recent discussions with them. So I think that I think that they're okay. I certainly have no problem. I think that in order to meet these timelines, we have to get this to council forthwith. And I'd have no problem. Mr. Councilor Morillo wouldn't between now and when this comes to full council going over your individual points with you and hopefully coming up, coming up with consensus amendments on the dais and council. Yeah. One thing I just wanted to note, and I'm totally out of school here. I haven't talked to my co-sponsor about this, but on the the office of community engagement point, would it meet your purposes if it just said the city administrator through whatever relevant entity shall direct you outreach efforts? Et cetera. Et cetera. So it doesn't presume the existence of, you know, or effectiveness of the office of community engagement.
256 That is more helpful, right? My point is, we can only direct really one, one boss to, to do certain work. And if the office of community engagement falls on their face and cease to exist, we still have to do the mission. And I think that the city administrator then has to assign it to the next best aligned organization. Who can do it. But legal words like shall do mean things. So yes, on that, let me I'll put it this way. I think we could pass the ordinance today. I have one, I think, minor amendment. I think we could pass that and we should. There's nothing that stops us from doing a resolution later on in terms of how we want that work conducted. But in the spirit of how our committees I think, were intended to be used was that we would get into it and we continually don't get into it at committee. We just pass and go where we do these amendments once we get to full council. And I think that's probably where we're going to end up with no committees in the new year is that they aren't working. So there's a little bit of that. I would like to move to my ordinance discussion. Just tell you what the one area I would like to see a change in.
257 I answer something quickly. Yeah. So the administration is going to have a 60 day report after the passage and the implementation of it. So the intention is always to make sure that they are part of this process. But I would be fine with that amendment if if the specific office named is an issue, that's okay. And we have worked with staff to confirm that the deadlines are workable for them too. So it's not something that we just want to to spring on them. It is an ambitious process, but it's also one that has been confirmed by the staff who will be implementing it.
258 And I know staff, you look like you wanted to jump in on answering the previous question, so I'll just give you a chance to do it and then pass it back to councilors and women for the ordinance conversation.
259 I was just going to add a large majority of what councilor Morillo said, but I just wanted to indicate that I mean, it seems that we've resolved this issue, but on the reference to community engagement, that was an amendment proposed by the administration, which we accepted. But I think that using language like the city administrator would be sufficient for their purposes. I wouldn't want to speak to them, but I think that's a completely reasonable amendment.
260 I appreciate that. Moving into the into the ordinance itself, there are a couple things in section b surveillance, privacy, oversight. I don't love the oversight. I think we are the oversight. So giving that to an office is concerning. But most of all, in paragraph one, and this is about conducting reviews of city programs. The second sentence this shall include privacy impact assessments completed prior to the deployment of a program or pilot when that program. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I would that to me seems out of sync with the rest of the ordinance. The rest of the ordinance seems about what will be established by the office, and how they will come up with recommendations about this work. But this one part of bravo one, b one kind of is the only part that says exactly what will happen. And that seems inappropriate for the rest of the document. So I would I would actually propose that that come out. I'll do it in a second. The other part is number eight, conducting audits of bureau and vendor surveillance. I actually think we can't do that. I think the audits happen by the auditor. And I think that if madam auditor were to see that, she would probably come out and say, that is my job to do. You don't have other offices do audits. We saw a similar thing come up at Multnomah county when the chair had tried to have an audit happen within the departments, and their auditor had to say, no, no, we do that. So that one, I think the intent of number eight is great, but likely does not match our charter. And I'll leave it there. So I guess I would move to strike the second sentence of bravo one through to the final words similar.
261 Just making sure you.
262 Finish your amendment before I.
263 I think that's just one, because I think they're probably two different amendments. I don't think I can probably make them together.
264 Okay. So this is an amendment to item three, which is the ordinance exhibit a, section b surveillance and privacy oversight. Number one, removing the second sentence. This shall include privacy impact assessments all the way to or similar. That's the motion. Is there a second for that motion?
265 Can we discuss it first or have our staff talk about it?
266 Can I make a point about it a little bit? I think that it's probably or it's reasonable that to expect that this would come out of the cdo, and they might make this as a recommendation in the future. But to my point that it seems to be incongruent with the rest of the ordinance, which is about establishing the cdo, and it's about what the cdo will bring to us. This is the one part that says the work that has to happen before a program happens. So I don't necessarily have a disagreement with a pia, but I do have a disagreement that it should be in this ordinance until we have the cdo tell us, like, this is the thing to do, and I think we should we should have a discussion about that from them when their work is, when they're established, when their work is complete. That was where I'm coming from. It seemed incongruent with the rest of the ordinance.
267 Second.
268 We do have a second. There was discussion, so I'll pass it to councilor Morillo.
269 No thanks. So can we discuss portion b one? The second sentence for susie if you want to speak to that.
270 Yes. So I believe okay. Sorry, I'm just pulling up b one. I'm trying to find the establishing resolution for. Okay. Actually, would it be possible to speak to the other one first as we pull up some information that's relevant to b1? Yes, I can speak a bit more easily and off the cuff to number eight. So conducting audits of bureau and vendor surveillance, etc. So I think that what I would suggest perhaps for this is not a deletion of the entire section, but perhaps a removal of the reference to the term audit. So I believe it is the case that bureaus do informal audits all the time. They call it assessments, things of that nature. I don't think that there's any intent. And this is something that we confirmed with the city attorney in particular on this exact language. There's no intent to supplant the authority of the auditor or do anything in that vein. It's audit, not in the term of, you know, performance audits conducted by the auditor as established by charter. It is just the regular use of that term. So perhaps assessments would be a viable alternative here.
271 How about this? I will hold on making that amendment. But when this comes to full council, having the auditor weigh in specifically on number eight, and if that if she thinks that meets the charter language, and if not, I'd be happy to carry a friendly amendment for her to you all so that if it's not necessary, since you said that legal has discussed this, having come from the fight at Multnomah county, where the auditor was so fired up, she came to the dais to to testify about it. I take that topic seriously now, so I'll hold mine. Susie, I think you have. Good. I think that's a good piece of advice I'll hold, but I would like it addressed when we come back to full. Is that enough time to find out the answer on the first one now?
272 Yes. Thank you for elaborating on your point. I think that it might be helpful if he's in the room. Is hector here? Would you be willing to come up to speak for a moment?
273 Perhaps step into the fire?
274 Hate to subject someone else to this, but.
275 Please introduce yourself for the record when you start. Actor. Thanks for being here.
276 Good afternoon. My name is hector dominguez. I work for the bureau of planning and sustainability, part of the smart city program, and I'm currently doing privacy impact assessments serving the surveillance technology resolution that passed in 2023. And we have history in our program developing also the privacy principles for the city and the facial recognition policy in 2020.
277 And I was wondering, hector, perhaps this is a bit odd, but I was wondering, in response to councilor Zimmerman's question, is there anything in the resolution that establishes the pias that speaks to timing of when they ideally should occur, or what governs timing?
278 Yeah. The resolution directs agencies to have that document as part of the information and the due diligence to understand what are the impacts and the risks of using a specific surveillance technologies. We have a definition of what the surveillance technology is. So it's just specifically on that is the the main purpose of that document is to inform agencies about that. So agencies usually take that document and leverage that in contracts and how to use the specific technology. And one example that I love is the assessment and the work that we have done with Portland police, particularly on drones. During the pilot, actually, one of the recommendations was to have more transparency on how drones are used in Portland and Portland. Police developed their drone dashboards out of that. And after a while, really, we didn't have any public record requests from the public because everything all the information was there on how police was using drones. And that reduced a lot of staff costs in public records and created more trust in the community around how we use drones.
279 Thank you. Thank you hector. So it sounds like what is being conducted currently under resolution, that is an example of it sounds like it's working. I think that for me, colleagues, that stands with if that comes forward from cdo as a council, we would like it. If you made this code now, I'll be all ears, but I think this might be jumping the ship. It actually is almost giving them their first code they have to do when they haven't even been established. It's the same establishing code. So that's why I will. I will stick with my my amendment. Thank you.
280 Thank you, councilor Zimmermann. So for the clerk's benefit that was seconded by councilor Smith, we are in discussion on it. I'm not sure who else is in the queue for it. So as we get through the queue, I'll ask folks if they were in the queue for the amendment or the underlying ordinance. I am next in the queue. Speaking in a personal capacity. I did have a question on this exact section as well. It was not the same question, so I'll just take the opportunity to ask it while I'm here. And it also relates to part a on data governance. There's a few places where it says advising the city. So this is the beginning of of part six, seven and eight. I think they're all one question, which is is the intention here that city council would be limited to acting only after receiving that advice, acting only after receiving these privacy impact assessments? Or is this primarily on the administrative side? And I may have a follow up.
281 No, I don't believe that there's any intent on our side to signal that the first part, that council would somehow be bound by a lack of advice or, you know, provision of advice on the part of this office. I think this was merely intended to signal that this is just going to be another voice at the table. Among many voices on each of these topics that have been outlined in six, seven and eight.
282 Okay. And then same applies to b1, the part, the same sentence that councilor Zimmerman's amendment relates to.
283 So I think b1 is a little different in that it speaks more formally to what we understood the intent of some of our predecessor resolutions to be about, which is that we like privacy impact assessments. And in an ideal world, we want them to be conducted prior to the deployment of the technology, because as many testifiers and subject matter experts in this space have noted, you know, once a piece of technology is deployed, some of that data is already out there. That violation of privacy has already occurred. It can't be drawn back into the bottle. Right. So that's why we would want to have those impact assessments occur prior to deployment to kind of it doesn't defeat the purpose entirely, but it does undermine purpose if they occur after. So I think that b1 would be a little bit more distinct in that there's no intent to bind council necessarily, but there is intent here to have these privacy impact assessments occur prior to deployment.
284 And just to get this on the record, I think I think you've answered it very clearly. But because you say deployment, this could happen. A privacy impact assessment could therefore happen after a council document was passed, but before the actual implementation of that.
285 Yes, absolutely.
286 Great. Thank you. That's all I had. I'll move to councilor Smith. Was your question on the amendment or the underlying ordinance or discussion?
287 It's under the amendment. I am I am a big supporter of protecting privacy, individuals and the work that we do. But I'm having a really tough time right now because. I'm talking to staff and I'm not talking to dcas. And this is a big, big thing that you all took on. And I'm trying to figure out not from staff who from leadership is directing you all to do this, that they want this. And I feel like we're out of our zone right now. That's I that's what I feel right here. I want to be helpful and I want to help you move this, but I feel like we're walking in somebody else's Lane right now. The dca didn't bring it. The mayor didn't bring it. Why do we feel like we have to delve into this? Isn't that a conversation you have with the dca and the mayor and say, I want you to change structurally? Aren't they the ones who change departments and about who moves and this idea that you're going to move ten people from different departments and put them under a dca? I mean, we have a system already. And so I'm really having a tough time with us just bossing up on the mayor and the city administrator and the dca, who is responsible, who is, by the way, not here. No one is here. I'm talking to you all staff, as if you all are leaders. I don't have a dca. I don't have a city administrator, michael jordan. Nobody from the mayor's office is saying that this is something that they want to do. I, I don't know that this is what we do because we have this is a lot for me to take in right now. It is so much just this amendment alone is is bothering me right now, and that we have even opened the door to this. And yes, you guys say, yeah, you're working with the departments. Yeah. They want to see what you're doing, but they're not here to say I'm supportive of what they're doing because I'm trying to figure out what are we trying to solve for that has happened that y'all created this big honking piece of policy on several levels. Ordinance resolution. What are you trying to solve for that has happened in this city right now? That that you did not make a meeting with the mayor or the city administrator and say, we need to change this structurally.
288 So I'm going. To let your questions be answered. But I think councilor Morillo and do try to keep this to the amendment. We some.
289 Yeah, that's what I'm that's.
290 What I'm trying to figure out what we're trying to solve.
291 For here.
292 Councilor Novick after that if you'd like.
293 Yeah. I think that we are pushing ambitious policies because the, the things that we are facing at this time are unprecedented. However, this is absolutely within the scope of council's jurisdiction. We are policy makers, and the charter gives us direct authority to create offices. So this is not something that is without not within the bounds of charter authority. We can absolutely do this. We are not asking to create exorbitant costs or hire a million people. We are just asking to streamline a very necessary privacy process that we simply do not have at the city. So the thing that we are trying to solve for is that we have fabulous staff at the city, but they are not coordinated in the ways that they need to be in order to protect people's data. That's really all this is for. But I think that it's actually a dereliction of our duty to not use our powers as policy makers and to use our charter authority to create offices when this is necessary. I also want to point out that we have not just policy authority, but budget authority. We have to make decisions that move positions. Sometimes that's a natural part of our work, and we have the buy in of staff. We have the buy in of the dca. I am sorry that he's not able to be here today, but dca oliveira is very supportive of this. We've had extensive conversations with him and he was a part of creating all of this. So, you know, the administration was definitely involved. And we have the the authority to do this.
294 Oh no, I know we have the authority to be we're policy makers, but. You put staff in a in a bad position when you got staff here. Talking on behalf of an issue in a dca is not here. You're putting them in a you're putting them in a, in a position of weakness because they can't speak. Yeah, donny is probably working with you because he's trying to get you to see what's doable and what's not. But if he was working with you, he would be here testifying, saying that this is this is something that I need for my departments to to go forward.
295 Councilor Novick. If you'd like to respond to that.
296 Councilor Smith, for one thing, I would say, if dca oliveira or dca interim dca warren didn't like this, then they'd be here testifying against it. And also I'd say I actually councilor Kind of shared your trepidation about, are we intervening in something that should be the province of the executive creating a new office? And that's why I raised this issue with the mayor quite some time ago. And as councilor Morillo said, this is an issue that came to us from staff that had been working on data issues for years, that were concerned about the vulnerabilities the city had because there was not a centralized data office with rulemaking authority, with the authority to set standards for the whole city. And we did not see this as a although.
297 That's not.
298 We did not see this as a priority, the executive. And to be honest.
299 Exactly. That's what that's what.
300 But to be honest, councilor, this I don't want to with all due respect to the mayor, he has one priority, which is to set up 1500 new shelter beds. And there are some issues that we think are essential to deal with, particularly given the threats that we have to, you know, many members of the community from federal overreach on, among other things, data issues. And we thought that this is and again, I was sensitive to your concern, but we thought this is an issue where we need action and we don't see this being a priority of the administration.
301 Now you're talking to me. Yeah. Now you're talking good. All right. Talk to me, talk to me, talk to me.
302 Tell me.
303 Something real.
304 Because I. That's what I've been feeling this whole time. That you felt like that you were not getting the response that you wanted to from the administrator or the mayor or the dca. And that's why you brought staff up here. And I don't like that. Do not bring staff up here and put them in the wrong position to go against what leadership is doing. So say that on the outset that, look, this is we're doing this because they're not acting based on what we said. So so that I understand don't keep telling me we have staff here because I don't listen to staff. I listen to leadership. Okay. So I see donnie oliveira here. Somebody needs to tell me who supports this. Are you supportive of this, of this what they're doing because they keep bringing your name up as if you're the person. And I just want to hear from you.
305 Should we.
306 Suspend the amendment discussion or where are we at?
307 We're still in the amendments. This is respectfully, this is not super narrow on the amendment, but I do think it's valid for dca. Oliveira. If you'd like to answer the question. After that, we will probably need to ask very narrow questions on the amendment so we can have a decision on that.
308 Does he know the amendment?
309 Thank you.
310 Chair danielle, for the record, can you please restate the question, please, just so I can just you're a little under the mike. I'm not.
311 We have a we have a proposed amendment to strike. So there's the underlying ordinance. There's a proposed amendment which we're debating right now to strike the second sentence in b1 and exhibit a of it, the privacy impact assessments. And you're being asked what your views are on the I think the whole ordinance frankly, but but on the amendment is yes.
312 Thank you for the clarification. May I just for my own thought process, just take a couple of steps back. So the city of Portland, in a variety of ways, has been looking at data governance, the complexities of privacy. And you heard, I think, earlier from staff and even from hector, that this this work has been ongoing in different spaces. And I think the concept of a centralized data office is this is not the first time this idea has been contemplated. We've we've looked at in different ways, in fact, bts through the smart cities program, led a citywide data governance committee. That was essentially the beginning of the work that's led to this point. And some take some twists and turns, of course. So to answer your question, councilor, I think generally speaking, the idea of a data office is is appropriate for a city of our size contemplating these really important issues. I do want to acknowledge and defer to the business operations team about how to get it done, but the work being centralized makes a lot of sense. And I think I.
313 I understand the work being centralized is is is the best way to do it. But I just want to know, are you all working in partnership, in partnership to do this, or is this something that council would be mandating you to do with this amendment? And the bigger that, are you prepared to do this right now? Were you prepared to do this right now?
314 That's what you say, warren. Answer that question. But I will say this work was built on work that had started last year that former dca, morrissey and I had been contemplating. So this is this idea had been, you know, in discussion last year.
315 Okay.
316 But but tracy is here that can speak to the specifics of implementation.
317 Okay.
318 Hello, councilors.
319 For the record, tracy warren, deputy city administrator for operations. Happy to answer some questions. It sounds like you have a question related to our ability to implement right away. I think one of the pieces that I would share is that we've been working back and forth with councilor, Novick and councilor Morillo office over the last several weeks around timing and our ability to implement. I think that there are some details that we still need to work out, and we've prepared, you know, questions as well as comments related to specific components within the resolution and ordinance. I think, as written for the amended language, I think we are okay with that. For timeline, recognizing that we would need to do an assessment and a more fuller report around resources and what it would take to implement.
320 I just.
321 Want to be clear, she's talking about the amendment that Novick put out, not the amendment that I put in. That's correct. Yeah.
322 Right.
323 Okay.
324 Thank you. I want to again, we're talking about the privacy impact assessments only. I don't want to have to cut off people and try to keep it. You will have a chance to talk about the underlying ordinance. But let's keep this to the amendment. I see four hands in the queue. I know mine is not about that. We're down to to three councilor Novick. Would you like to speak specifically to councilor Zimmermann's amendment?
325 Yeah, I think that the goal here is to make sure that prior to the deployment of a program or pilot that implicates sensitive data, surveillance technologies, artificial intelligence systems, etc. That this office shall conduct a review and assessment. And historically, the kind of assessment that's that's done is a privacy impact assessment. I think that to me, that's the goal to make sure that we're not doing new things that implicate sensitive data without this office having a chance to go over it. And I actually councilor Morillo and staff, I mean, I don't know if there's how essential it is that it call out the phrase privacy impact assessment. But councilor Zimmerman, if we removed the specific phrase and just said that they this office will conduct review of such things prior to deployment, would that would he be more okay with that?
326 Yeah. Counselor I so so imagine we pass this right. And. We established this. There is there is a flow before or like a glide path to when the city administrator will establish actually a cdo in place, as your resolution discusses in the interim, everything freezes if it comes up into that until it can be. Except we heard already, given the resolution that that people are working under, this work is happening already. And so I think laying it out as this office will be responsible for these moving forward is perfectly fine. But it looks like this one part of it is is coming forward and it has specifics into it. And, and I'm just saying I think it might be the cart before the horse, that's all. Because I think this could be reasonable once we actually have one to establish it at the same exact moment, takes it maybe from where it exists now in resolution and makes it code. That seems weird to me.
327 Would you? And again, saying this without consulting with my co-sponsor, but would you be okay with conducting reviews of city programs and pilots that implicate sensitive data, etc. But comma, prior to the deployment of such programs or pilots, when those programs are pilots are new. Et cetera. Et cetera.
328 Sorry. Can I speak to this before we start creating amendments to the amendment that we haven't voted on yet?
329 Yes.
330 You're in the next in the queue anyway.
331 I am completely fine with your other amendment on the audit part and changing that to assessment. That makes a lot of sense to me. Why that word would give you trepidation. As far as b subsection one goes in the second sentence, I think that there are specific policy reasons why this was written. And it's because, again, as susie has already stated once, data is already once a new technology is already implemented, the data is there and collected. It's much harder to put the genie back in the bottle. So the whole purpose of this is to prevent the genie from getting out of the bottle in the first place. So I feel very strongly that b1 needs to stay. The intention, I think, is clear. This is the one that I wouldn't really feel comfortable moving on. The other one I feel totally fine with.
332 After hector's testimony, did you feel like that's not happening now? Because it sounds like it is. It doesn't sound like this is doing something new. It's already happening by resolution.
333 I again, I think the issue you know what, dca oliveira, would you like to speak to this?
334 Yeah. Thank you. Councilor. Councilor Zimmerman the work is happening. But but frankly, when that resolution was adopted that started the pias, that was not resourced, that was not funded, it was not centralized. It was coming. It was happening out of bts with the csa was the director at the time. I mean, hector was juggling that. I think regardless of where this lands, as the amendment, daylight in the pa is a tool that the city needs to invest in and put it in this office is appropriate. It's where it belongs. Yeah.
335 That's not being debated. Yeah. It's whether or not it should be written into code right now.
336 Agreed. That's that's for you all to decide. But I don't think it's fair to say that it's happening. It's happening as best as we can, given virtually no resources towards it right now.
337 Okay. So given that, then do we have the ability to get every dca to tell us, like what would be the next six months impact of that for things that are in the hopper, so to speak? Because if we pass this and in 30 days it goes live, I would like to have an understanding of impact statement on all of our different service areas. If if this institutes a new thing, because it sounds like we already have a resolution that people should be adhering to, and this language sounds like it will make it immediately a goal, what you say is not implementable yet, and it will become required to be implementable once we pass this. Yet in an resourced office, because we have not passed a budget to resource this office.
338 We could get back to you on what that would look.
339 Like, which means this is dead in the water until we pass a budget to put money behind cdo and I that's what I, I feel like we should be able to talk about the impacts without it becoming alive or dead. That's not I think I'm very supportive. I just I don't want this to stop the work. If there are other things coming along in the pipeline.
340 Okay. Next in the queue is councilor Morillo.
341 I don't know, I think I'm getting confused by councilor Zimmerman's concerns because I think I'm not understanding it. If this isn't adding additional budget or staff and it's just streamlining staff, I don't I don't understand the concern here, but I think that was a legacy hand.
342 So okay, well then all the hands in the queue right now are not about the amendment. So at this point we do have a motion. We have a second on the amendment to strike the second sentence in ordinance exhibit ab1. The second sentence. Diana, could you please call the roll?
343 Zimmerman I.
344 Smith no.
345 Morillo.
346 No.
347 Novick.
348 No. With the caveat that if I can do this consistent with public meetings law, I'm willing to continue this conversation with council before this gets to full council.
349 Canal ditto to Novick on that. No.
350 Okay. Motion fails.
351 Motion fails. We're now back to discussing the underlying ordinance. There was a pre filed well barely pre filed amendment as well. If you would like to move that has not been moved yet.
352 The ordinance or to the resolution.
353 We're technically discussing both at this moment okay. Which is I understand complicated but that's how it was filed. Next in the queue is councilor Novick, I believe, and if anyone has a legacy hand, please remove it.
354 Yes, I want to move the amendment to exhibit a to the resolution under one. A city data and privacy office, which would strike the written proposal, should be submitted to council within 60 days of the passage of the resolution and replace that with prior to submitting the plan to council or relevant committee, a city staff member shall be appointed and or hired as a chief data officer on an interim or ongoing basis. The written proposal should be submitted to council or relevant committee within 60 days of passage of this resolution. To be added to that language you had before or by March 31st, 2026. As councilor Kanal points out, not 2025, whichever is later. For the purposes of timelines described in this resolution, the office shall be considered established. After that written, the written proposal is heard by council. Relevant committee.
355 There's a motion. Is there a second?
356 So given that this was moved by both and seconded by the two co-sponsors of this, I'm just going to ask, is there any opposition? Can we have unanimous consent for this amendment.
357 No.
358 Okay. Seeing opposition, is there any discussion?
359 No, I.
360 I want to put my hand up.
361 Okay. Councilor councilor Smith, please feel free to speak to the.
362 I don't even understand this. I don't understand it. I don't get it. I mean, I get it from a, from a issue area that privacy is important, but I don't understand all this stuff. This stuff is so complicated. And when we were talking about this before, I mean, all these different resolutions and all that, I'm, I am I don't I'm not ready for it right now because I'm, I'm confused by all the twists and turns and how it is going to be implemented, how this policy is going to be implemented so quickly with the dcas on top of everything else that they have to do. This is not getting ready to. That's why I say, what are we solving for right now? And it is it's an urgent issue. But I think it was it should be an issue that is brought in partnership, in partnership with the administration, because they're going to be the ones who have to implement it. Even though we can do policy, that's what we do. But we can't always be out on a limb because we get our feelings hurt because the mayor or the administrator doesn't like our project and is not moving as fast as we want them to move, because that's what I'm saying. Is this something that's happening right now that we need to do this right now, because this is going to happen to the city records and people's data is going to be all over the place if we don't do something. That's why I don't see the sense of urgency right now. And I don't understand it. And I haven't spent enough time with it. And this is something that we should have had a work session about or two.
363 Councilor Smith, if the mayor was to slow down, sip or something that you really cared about.
364 I think.
365 I think you would have some serious opposition to that. Why would we give up our council powers and our authority as councilors when we have the dca here talking about how this has been in the works for a long time, he generally thinks this is something that should be done to streamline data privacy. And this absolutely is an urgent issue for my community as an immigrant when ice is collecting people's data.
366 Okay, so that's so lead with that, lead with that lead.
367 With I'm telling.
368 You, I'm trying to do this. You should have led with that and said that because ice is one, two, three, but you didn't lead with that. And you and you.
369 And sarah morrissey have said that they worked on this policy for years. They have prepared for this. We have prepared for this.
370 And so why did not why did michael jordan not put this in his infrastructure plan when he built this new government? As it stands, why didn't he put that in as as an important, critical piece to all the pieces that we have to put together as we're building this government together? I get it. I just don't understand it. It's too much for me to wrap my arms around. That's that's all. I don't understand it right now.
371 Okay, so just.
372 Clarifying that we are still speaking to the the amendment.
373 The under.
374 The amendment right now which was moved by councilor Novick.
375 Yeah.
376 We have yet to discuss the underlying ordinance. Is anyone in the queue to discuss the amendment at this time? Okay. Diana, will you please call the roll?
377 Zimmerman a Smith?
378 No.
379 Morillo I.
380 Novick I.
381 Canal I.
382 The motion to amend the resolution is shown in Novick one is approved with a vote of four eyes and one no.
383 Thank you. We're now back to the underlying resolution and ordinance. I see councilor Zimmerman in the queue.
384 Yeah. Thank you. So I mean, I had asked, right. And I still will continue to ask for, you know, a city administrator's report on this when it when it comes forward, it doesn't sound like we can get really the full meal. We got a little bit of a disparate one, but I think that needs to be included. The reason I'm going to support the ordinance, even though I lost that amendment, I think it's that damn important, I really do. I think that I'm now very frustrated that this has become, I think. Messy for the sake of I don't know what. And that's really unfortunate because this should have been something that was able to come through with enough process to be understood and be implementable. I think that the resolution at this point does not have my support, because I actually don't have faith in the way you're going to skin this cat as it's gone down, and the unwillingness to talk about the details here is very frustrating for me. That doesn't change my support for the overall ordinance. I think I would prefer that we pass the ordinance as a body and then as a council, and then that the city administrator either comes back with something in the vein of the resolution you're attempting to pass today, or we pass a resolution that has had time to be worked on. And to councilor Smith's point, I think a work session would have been helpful because this is an important topic for the reasons that councilor Morillo laid out. I. I do feel the urgency this is for me is not about the disposable disposal of computers. This is about license plates being read. This is about whether or not if you get a traffic ticket in Multnomah county, that our records are then used for other immigration purposes or other cybersecurity purposes or other fraudulent purposes. That is why I'm going to support this. I'm a feeling fired up because I wanted to support this and do it collaboratively and get there. So I'll close with I think you should all table the resolution. You should pass the ordinance, and I look forward to working with councilors, canal and Novick on a slight amendment to that ordinance. It is. Let's establish the chief data officers office. Let's let the meat on the bones come from the administration, which is the appropriate fashion. And if they fail to do that, we will put the meat on the bones for them. But let's give them the chance to do it. That's all. Thank you. Chair.
385 Thank you, councilor Zimmermann. I'm next in the queue. I thought I might need to do a division here. I don't, so I think I would ask if anyone would like to make a motion on the ordinance. Or you could do this on the resolution to, to move ordinance to the full council with a due pass recommendation.
386 So moved.
387 Is there a second second? Is there any further discussion that's moved by councilor Morillo, seconded by Novick. Is there any further discussion? Seeing no hands in the queue? Diana, will you please call the roll on referring the ordinance to the full council with the due pass recommendation?
388 Zimmermann a Smith.
389 No.
390 Morillo I.
391 Novick I.
392 Canal I.
393 The motion to refer ordinance document number 2025 480 to city council with a recommendation it be passed, is approved with a vote of four eyes and one no.
394 Thank you.
395 Move to table the resolution.
396 There's a motion to table the resolution. I believe it's a motion to postpone indefinitely at this, officially speaking. But that motion is in order. Is there a second.
397 To that?
398 Is there one you would prefer?
399 I don't have my books over there. So you're at my normal seat. Well, yeah, I think we're we're aware of what this is. Is there a specific date or is this when next placed on the agenda? Okay. I'm seeing no specific date. Is there a second to that motion?
400 Second.
401 Okay. Is there a discussion on it? On the motion to table. Is there diana, could you please call the roll. And this is on tabling the resolution.
402 Yes.
403 Zimmermann I.
404 Smith I.
405 Morillo. No.
406 Novick.
407 No.
408 Canal.
409 I don't think this actually will make much of a difference here, given the time. I'll vote no because we are going to have to end the meeting soon anyway.
410 So the motion to table fails with a vote of two a's and three no's.
411 Okay, we're back to discussing the underlying resolution. I do want to note before we go back into the queue and no one's in the queue at this moment, we have been getting guidance from staff that we are needing to wrap this meeting up. I also there's no motion to approve the resolution yet, so someone needs to do that.
412 I move to approve the resolution.
413 Second.
414 There's a motion to refer refer the full to the full council. The resolution with a recommendation to be adopted. Is that correct?
415 Correct.
Procedural episode · turns 416–424
Parliamentary activity detected in this stretch (see the markers above). An editor-reviewed analysis has not been published for this episode yet.
416 Okay. There's a motion from Morillo seconded by Novick. Is there any discussion on this motion? I will add one thing in here which I think needs to be said. Actually two things. One is I want to weigh in on the question about frontline staff weighing in here. There are hundreds of reports that have been written by frontline staff, of which I was one who are not ever going to be bureau directors, or at least weren't at the time that they wrote it. I think it's really valuable that we dust those off. Now, if you're a city employee in the Portland building or anywhere else, and you wrote a report now or five years ago, I would love to see it. Some some of them have been read by us. That's why we're bringing these up. The work that smart city has done over the years has been really valuable. It wasn't always appreciated in the way that it should be in older leadership teams. So I'm looking forward to to bringing that back. Now. I also have some some specific things that I'm interested in, and I appreciate the questions that councilor Zimmermann raised. We have asked for more time in these committees to do this work, the way that it should be done, and been rebuffed at multiple turns. And this has nothing to do with anybody in this room. But we this committee needs more time. And so I just want to to flag that. And that's why we're stuck doing these things with ideally not as much time as we'd ideally have. Councilor Smith.
417 Thank you. Thank you. Co-chair, let me tell you a couple of things. My concerns lie largely with the formation of a new city office, with a new chief data officer appearing to be out of sync with other midstream efforts, such as the enterprise efficiencies and the realignment. And we're expected we're expecting the city administrator to to reduce our expenses by 20%. But yet we keep creating stuff. And so with this 20% expense reduction goal set forth by the administration, it's not currently clear to me how we can build a new office amid these pressures and seemingly competing priorities. And when y'all know you can't sit here and tell me that it's not going to cost us something to do this new office, because it is. And, you know, we have a gap. That part. While the proposal aims at cost neutrality by reorganizing existing staff into this specialized function, if we have the administration, have the administration raised any concerns about the indirect costs in our ongoing ability to financially and operationally support this work, I, I would have liked to to heard from michael jordan on this. I know he's leaving. What are some of the concerns. And you know, sometimes and I'm going to say this to the dca's. Sometimes y'all just need to tell us, no, don't be just leading people on and telling them, yes, this is what you really want and you really don't. And then you talk about, oh, council has done this, but you haven't done your part either. And I'm talking to the dca's all y'all quit shining us on if we, if we're really not on the mark, tell us that this is going to be extremely hard to do without us getting new resources and having another a new dca. Tracy is new and this is coming right up under her purview. And so for me, I'm really frustrated and I am I'm highly frustrated that this detailed of a thing that we're going to do that's so serious. And I believe it's important, but I need we need to be clear to the the real reasons why we're doing certain things, not because, you know, it's it's because of your own personal pet peeves about how people respond to you. But we got to be real with ourselves, too. I, I just, I don't like it. I like pieces of it, but I just don't understand doing something this monumental that we don't have, that we're not walking alongside our people and they're not bringing it forward for us. That's that's what I have a problem with.
418 Thank you, councilor Smith. I'll just remind everyone we do need to confine ourselves to the question or debate and refrain from personal criticism. That's in city code. Councilor Morillo is next in the queue.
419 Yeah, I just don't understand what the point is of bringing the dca, who we've worked with, to ask his opinion. If then we're going to assume that actually he's lying, or that he's not telling us his real opinion because frankly, a lot of dcas will block you if they think that you're wrong. So in my experience, they have been perfectly comfortable with pushback. We are a city council. We have budget authority. We have authority to create offices. We have authority over budget. We did not put in all this work and work with staff to talk about the budget and to bring a presentation to you guys that you could see that this doesn't broadly impact the budget. If it were, if for you to completely disregard all of that data in what I believe to be more emotional decision making rather than factually based decision making, I would also vote that we move to pause further discussion, and that we actually move to the vote because we were supposed to be out of here by 450.
420 So that's a motion to call the question. I'll second that. Is there any opposition to that motion seeing none, we have unanimous consent to to to call the question. We'll move to the vote on the actual motion to refer the resolution to council with a the recommendation that it be accepted. Diana, will you please call the roll?
421 Zimmerman.
422 No.
423 Smith.
424 No.
425 Morillo.
426 Yes.
427 Novick I.
428 Canal I look forward to talking about this and trying to fix it when we have the time that the full council allows I.
429 The motion to refer the resolution as amended, document number 2025 481 to city council with a recommendation be adopted, is approved with a vote of three eyes and two noes.
430 Okay, that concludes everything on the agenda before I pass it to councilor Novick to give his final thoughts and close out the meeting, I just wanted to say this is our last meeting of the year for the community and public safety committee. It shouldn't be. We should have requested been granted our request to have a meeting next week, like many other committees did, were granted, and that's been a sour end to a really good year. It's been a privilege to work with you all the members in particular, councilor and co-chair Novick. Thank you. And I'll pass it to you to close us out.
431 I just wanted to say that I really appreciate this committee. This committee has a wide diversity of viewpoints on a wide variety of issues and a lot of engagement. One thing that I meant to do that I haven't done, I want to talk to councilor Kanal about is having some sessions of this committee where we try to plan out what we want to work on. We sort of discuss what do we think that we should have committee meetings on, and have all of us engage in that. And I although I think that there are reasons for urgency, I hearing councilor Zimmerman's and councilor Smith's comments today, I think that we should probably figure out a way to let people know in advance in public, because that's the only way we can do it. Here's what we're working on. So you don't know about it just a week before. So I, I look forward to I actually like to us sometime early in the year to have a free flowing discussion with dca about what are some of the issues that this committee should be should be taking up, and I really look forward to that. Thank you everybody. Our next meeting is Tuesday, January 13th. One of the issues will be addressing is the law enforcement masking and identification ordinance from co-chair office. The meeting, the community and public safety committee is now adjourned.